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Forceless Magnetic Flux

Started by vineet_kiran, December 15, 2013, 02:44:50 AM

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Liberty

Quote from: TinselKoala on January 28, 2014, 11:22:06 AM
That's wrong. All magnetic field lines are closed loops. They do not "start on the north pole and end on the south pole". They form complete loops all the way through the bulk magnet. This is the physical meaning of divB=0.

A closed magnetic loop is a conservative field, magnetic field lines do tend to form closed loops.  However the flux path flow direction is from north pole to south pole according to physics teachings and power generation theory. 

Magnetic fields are basically lazy, (similar to electricity), finding and using the shortest or easiest path to satisfy the closed loop differential.
Liberty

"Converting Magnetic Force Into Motion"
Liberty Permanent Magnet Motor

TinselKoala

All magnetic field lines are closed loops! Consider the source of the magnetic field in a bulk material. It comes from the spins of unpaired electrons in the atoms of the material that makes up the bulk magnet. You can think of the electron's charge as "orbiting around" the nucleus if you like: now it's easy to see that the magnetic field created by that electron's charge in motion is a closed loop. The field lines loop around the electron's path. Sure the "direction of flow" is defined as you say: "out" of North and "in" to South. But nothing flows! The term "flux" is another misleading term we have to deal with. When you magnetize a bulk material you are essentially aligning a lot of those little individual loops of field lines, so you see the field outside the bulk material and you can engineer using the fiction that they "start" at the N pole and "end" at the S pole... but it's easy to prove that that is a fiction, simply by cutting the magnet in half. And again. And again, until finally you only have the one atom left... and you will see the field line making a complete loop around the electron's path in orbit.

Liberty

Quote from: TinselKoala on January 28, 2014, 03:02:20 PM
All magnetic field lines are closed loops! Consider the source of the magnetic field in a bulk material. It comes from the spins of unpaired electrons in the atoms of the material that makes up the bulk magnet. You can think of the electron's charge as "orbiting around" the nucleus if you like: now it's easy to see that the magnetic field created by that electron's charge in motion is a closed loop. The field lines loop around the electron's path. Sure the "direction of flow" is defined as you say: "out" of North and "in" to South. But nothing flows! The term "flux" is another misleading term we have to deal with. When you magnetize a bulk material you are essentially aligning a lot of those little individual loops of field lines, so you see the field outside the bulk material and you can engineer using the fiction that they "start" at the N pole and "end" at the S pole... but it's easy to prove that that is a fiction, simply by cutting the magnet in half. And again. And again, until finally you only have the one atom left... and you will see the field line making a complete loop around the electron's path in orbit.

Nicely put TinselKoala.  I like your explanation.  The term "magnetize" would also be a "term to deal with" like flux.  (But they are kind of handy to use at times).  Are the magnetic loops and electron spins then, perpetual in nature in your opinion, or just long lasting? 
Liberty

"Converting Magnetic Force Into Motion"
Liberty Permanent Magnet Motor

vineet_kiran

Magnetic flux, lines of force, direction of flux etc., are only conventions used to explain or study the magnetic fields.  Even if you consider the direction of flux as from S pole to N pole, it is not going to make any difference. Einstein considered magnetic field as a "jelly like thing"  surrounding the magnet.

What I intend to say is that, a magnetic field is characterized by force and flux.  When you bring a iron piece near a magnet, the magnet attracts the iron piece with a force and at the same time flux flows through the iron piece. If you absorb the force by some mechanical means, will not the flux flowing through the iron piece become forceless?

If you take a magnet near a iron leaf spring, the spring bends and absorbs( balances) the magnetic force and flux flowing through the spring becomes 'forceless'. (?)

What happens if you make a liquid coil?  Liquids donot have strong bonds as in the case of solids (hence they are liquids). When you take a AC wave near a liquid coil,  will not the 'liquid molecular magnets' vibrate or align in the direction of flux produced by AC wave?

Has anybody ever tried to make a liquid coil?   (fill a thin PVC tube with electrolytic solution, wind the tube around a magnetic or non magnetic material and pass a DC through the tube.  You will have a liquid coil !!!)



forest

ha ! I have a device on this principle laying in dust for 3 years  :-X  Had no time and experience to start it up. But i will give you a hint : free magnetic fields in space mostly overlap but what about the magnetic fields from two separate sources ? We know two magnets repel or attract so ..... ? what is the chance of turtle to pass the road ?