Lenzless resonant transformer

[Jack Noskills]

Hi Jack,

offcourse we can manipulate all kind of settings by adding/removing caps/bulbs etc. to see what happens, but.......
I thought that you claimed to have some kind of special effect when setting up a simple experiment (30 minutes).

Up till now i have tried to follow your drawings (no pictures yet of your setup, why not escapes me) and created/measured 3 different core/coil setups.

all 3 behaves differently, but all of them show effects having to do with resonance which have been gracefully and very knowledably explained by verpies.

So before i continue testing, could you please tell me:

which of the 3 setups i have resembles the best your setup which has this special effect?
Did you notice in any of my tests the special effect you are claiming? And if so which setup/when?
What components are you using (besides the M88 nanoperm core), like capacitors, wire, nbr of turns?


Concerning your questions (i assume they are for this latest setup):

i looked at my video again and this showed:

Prim. resonance (very broadbanded) 180KHz - 700Hz
Sec   resonance 62KHz.  (primary responance dips almost at this same frequency as the prim bulb comes on too).


Well, as you can see above, the primary is already in resonance all the time when the secondary comes into resonance,
so i don't think what you suggest is possible.



Regards Itsu

The last one shows the same effect, second resonant frequency which is higher than resonant frequency of the primary when output is not connected at all. Also core that was winded as verpies said had it. This is why think something special might happen if second resonant frequency matches the first resonant frequency. By first resonance I mean point where primary resonates when output is not connected at all and there is no current flowing in the primary side because it is blocked by parallel LC. This resonant point cannot be wide. [/size][size=78%]I cannot test this so I don't know, but you have the tools to investigate it. Adding a bigger capacitor at output brings 2nd resonant frequency down. I noticed this happening in my tests when changing from 500 nf to 1000 nf. But why it happened I have no idea.


Can you see what I am after ? Adding caps in output does not change resonant frequency of the primary LC. When second resonant frequency matches the first one, current is blocked in the primary LC. Now when power is taken at this frequency, what is the result ? Impedance of the system does not change, hence source will see only resistive load. How much this then affects source ?


I used 1000 nf caps, about 80 turns of 0.31 mm wire and permeability of M88 is 80000.


The purpose of this thread is the third coil around the whole thing. When I was testing this I tried also without third coil and realized 2nd frequency occurs also there. I got the same amount of light out, but now input was affected also. However, I got more light and heat out than in. Now your vids have shown that when second resonance occurs input voltage is in phase with input current so input power computing is not complex. Also your vids showed that there is also the first resonant frequency still left. These were new info to me.

At the moment I don't which one is more interesting, three coil system or this two coil dual resonance system. There could be surprises ahead, I hope you still have strength to try the resonant matching using caps with the two coil system. Lets not give up just yet.

[itsu]

Jack,

i have no intensions to stop now, but i need some clear directions.

The very first sentences already makes my head spin  :

The last one shows the same effect, second resonant frequency which is higher than resonant frequency of the primary when output is not connected at all.
Also core that was winded as verpies said had it.

You mean the last setup with the 2x 200 turns, Right?
If so then again, the sec. res freq. is NOT higher then prim. res freq., sec res fall into the broad prim res.
And what do you mean by "when output is not connected at all"?   I never removed the output bulb!

And its normal that when either LC is in resonance, we see only a resistive load meaning both voltage and current in phase.

Regards Itsu

[Jack Noskills]

Jack,

i have no intensions to stop now, but i need some clear directions.

The very first sentences already makes my head spin  :


You mean the last setup with the 2x 200 turns, Right?
If so then again, the sec. res freq. is NOT higher then prim. res freq., sec res fall into the broad prim res.
And what do you mean by "when output is not connected at all"?   I never removed the output bulb!

And its normal that when either LC is in resonance, we see only a resistive load meaning both voltage and current in phase.

Regards Itsu

Yes, setup with 2*200 turns.


Sorry about the mess with the terms, I explain.



Resonant frequency of the 21 mH coil with 7 nf cap is 13127 Hz when secondary is not connected from: f=1/2*pi*sqrt(LC). This is what I mean with first resonant frequency.


Second resonant frequency was at 62 kHz when secondary was connected using 7 nf cap.


This is 4.7 fold difference so this squared times 7 nf gives 156 nf capacitor would be needed at output to bring second resonant frequency down to 13127 Hz. If I am correct that is. Using 220 nf should bring it lower than 13127 Hz, it is a good test to see if this actually happens. If result is not lower than 13127 Hz, then the formula I used is not correct and proper C to use needs to be searhed for.


Now I am thinking it would make sense to bring first resonance frequency down by using bigger capacitor in the primary. With 220 nf primary cap first resonant frequency would be 2342 Hz giving 26 fold difference (if secondary resonance is still 62 kHz), resulting in 26*26*220 = 154243 nf worth of C in the output. Hmm, maybe a bit too much. This is for further study if something interesting is found with current setup using 7 nf primary capacitor.

[itsu]

Ok, 

Latest setup (2x 200), lets follow that one as it is the closed of what you have right now.
I agree on the calculated resonance frequencies (21 mH coil with 7 nf cap is 13127 Hz) as it is confirmed by my online calculator
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

But somehow the circuit changes the parameters as i found a broad prim res freq of 180KHz - 700Kz and sec. res freq. of 62KHz
So either the inductance or capacitance or both is changed under influenz of the serial/parallel resonances with the bulbs (resistor/inductor) in place.

I will use the latest setup (2x 200) again with the 7nF and will see if adding capacitors to the secondary will decrease the sec res freq ideally to 13127Hz


Regards Itsu

[forest]

I believe you need 2 times lower resonant frequency on primary then on secondary ,with no current flow in primary.