Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[mondrasek]

I think that Wayne drops in once in a while to try to do some damage control.  He desperately wants this this thread to create the illusion that the Zed is real and his company is real for the true hard-core rabid believers.

MH, I disagree.  From what I can tell, Mr. Wayne drops in to encourage us to finish the Mathematical Analysis.  I have done mine.  I was surprised.  I asked for a double check.  And I still wait for that double check to be completed.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to perform a double check.  Now that MarkE has performed and presented his analysis right up to the final step(s), and I have confirmed that his results conform to my own, you could skip those steps and just pick it up from there.

The results I have found, if corroborated by anyone, would definitely require a triple, and even a quadruple check!

[TinselKoala]

MH, I disagree.  From what I can tell, Mr. Wayne drops in to encourage us to finish the Mathematical Analysis.  I have done mine.  I was surprised.  I asked for a double check.  And I still wait for that double check to be completed.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to perform a double check.  Now that MarkE has performed and presented his analysis right up to the final step(s), and I have confirmed that his results conform to my own, you could skip those steps and just pick it up from there.

The results I have found, if corroborated by anyone, would definitely require a triple, and even a quadruple check!

So you must be building away in secret then, so that you will be the FIRST actually to show on a real system, more output work than input work, and a real self-runner. Certainly nobody on Travis's payroll can do that much.

And let's not even mention the little incident involving calculations that brought you and me together in the first place, shall we?

[MarkE]

I agree with your analysis through State 2.  Everything adds up exactly as I also found.

I utilized the same analysis method for the output rise as was used for the input of the water charge:  F*ds as expressed for the case of a Volume of a Fluid that is being moved by a change in Pressure that either starts or ends at zero:  P_average*V.  The riser initially will want to move with a Pressure that can be calculated from the buoyant force sum of the pod and risers.  That Pressure should drop linearly to zero as the ZED reaches equilibrium at the end of the rise.  The physical device that would restrain the initial Pressure and allow it to drop to zero while performing the rise is not important for the analysis I think.  Please let me know if you think otherwise.

It all depends on what one wishes to determine. 

1) Since we agree that there is no energy gain going between State1 and State2, we have established that the "ideal Zed" you have set-up can only do something that you find interesting by buoying the risers and pod. 

2) The risers and the pod have zero mass, so no energy is gained by their increase in height.

3) Buoyancy force is just acceleration due to gravity operating on fluids.

4) Gravity acts conservatively on any mass independent of state:  solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

5) Now that you are using the integral of F*ds, you know that as soon as we release the risers, that the stored energy will go down. 


Do you agree with all of that or not?

[MarkE]

Great Work Mark E and Monderask.

You have worked thru the Math to properly analyzed the "Ideal charge"

That deserves a victory Lap for the Math so Far - well done.

Again - Great work thru the first step.

Note to Mark, "Ideal charge" is great for Monderask's question.


It is incorrect to use that state of a ZED or Marks stated operation as any conclusion, you have one wheel on the Gravity Wagon so far..Smile

p.s. Don't feel bad - almost every engineer jumped to your conclusion - you will get it soon.

Wayne

Engineers "jumped to your conclusion".  You are a hoot.  The seemingly effortless way that you continue to shamelessly keep suggesting that you have something behind your tattered curtain is really awesome.

[MarkE]

To All,

The drawing all lend confusion to our process.

Non show a static load - we used Hydraulic resistance as the load - above the risers.

This resulted in a state where the charge to lift a load is balanced - once buoyancy to load neutral  is reached - any additional input resulted in overcoming the resistance and resulted in stroke and output.

Also important to understand - at the end of the desired stroke - a mechanical stop is used to keep the precharge and stroke input from being released.

In effect - the load was removed during stroke, and then the precharge and stroke input recaptured.

As Webby described - we invented several methods to improve the value of that re use of the precharge and stroke input.

- The Video Mark Dansie took - we recaptured 57% of the input. (was our first  three layer ZED system)

This resulted in a simple input reduction to the over all process.

The comparisons to a Hydraulic cyclnder - which Larry has shown - is for one simple realization.

When we configure the ZED to upstroke loaded - with the same or better value than a simple hydraulic cylnder - and then re-use any portion of that input - the result is a input reduction.

Just as Fletcher described.

Our design requires three layers to be equal to or better than a Hydraulic cylinder.

The seal less jack comparison - with resuse is simple and clear - it continues to surprise me - that the men who slander me - won't see that.

............

Larry and Mark have agreed that a single layer and pod system is in the 60%'s area, I agree.

Watch what happens when you add two and then three - you can stop at three if you like - but you do not have to. smile

............

It took three minutes to realize the value of the ability to recycle input in a ZED system......... no magic, no fuss, no agenda.

Just good hard work.

Wayne

Wayne Travis you do not speak for me.  Larry's spreadsheet remains broken.  The analysis above shows that there is no gain to be had with the serpentine piston.  As soon as we release the device, we lose energy that we paid.  There is no sign of over unity.  There are only losses.