Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[TinselKoala]

The Zed that does not produce anything is not Travis's Zed. Where is the production, what form does it take, when in the cycle is it taken off so that part can be re-used as "Flow Assist" and the other part used off-line? Where, exactly, is any of this explained?

Something, somehow, is "produced", taken away from the single Zed somewhere in the cycle, for use. Part of this production is used to "Flow Assist" either this same Zed or the other Zed to reset it. The other part.... the MAJOR part.... of what is taken away from the True and Holy Zed is used _outside the system of the two Zeds_ to perform usable work.

Of what does the production consist, exactly? Is it pressure of air, water, hydraulic fluid? Where exactly is this production removed from the Zed under analysis? Where and how does it become "flow assist" and what is done with the rest of the production when it done performing its work outside the Zeds? If you use hydraulic pressure off-line, that pressure is gone, out of the system. If you use water.... gone. Hydraulic fluid itself..... gone, except for the bit of "flow assist" that you put back in, a far smaller bit according to honest Wayne Travis, than you can use off-line. A weight, removed at the top and replaced at the bottom? Where is your weight transfer? How does it become "flow assist"?

So? Why are you analyzing a Zed that has _no production output_ ? It is not the "real" zed and when you are done, this is what Travis will tell you. You are proving that a rock will fall in gravity.... Travis is telling you he has circumvented gravity. You are describing a spring that re-sets with no production, Travis is claiming a system that resets itself by using part of its own production. Ergo, your analysis is moot.

[mondrasek]

So? Why are you analyzing a Zed that has _no production output_ ? It is not the "real" zed and when you are done, this is what Travis will tell you. You are proving that a rock will fall in gravity.... Travis is telling you he has circumvented gravity. You are describing a spring that re-sets with no production, Travis is claiming a system that resets itself by using part of its own production. Ergo, your analysis is moot.

TK, my Analysis of the Ideal 3-layer ZED still shows excess Energy.  I have been trying to come to terms with MarkE on the way I performed that Analysis.  We switched gears to the no-pod, single riser, as it was easier for me to make clear how a single riser acts, and that Work can be performed as it rises.  Once MarkE can confirm his values that do not conform to mine for the Energy inside this system at each State due only to the columns of water, we should be on the same page.  Then we can go back to the 3-layer ZED and evaluate the potential Work that system could have done while lifting.  That has never been done, AFAIK, and is the reason that MarkE's Analysis does not show the excess Energy that mine does.

Once excess Energy is confirmed to be present or not, then we can see if we have anything more to talk about.  The math does not lie.  And there is only one correct solution.  If the Analysis does not show excess Energy, then I see no reason to continue.  But if it does show excess Energy, then I will discuss the way that Mr. Wayne has described that he can harvest and utilizes that net gain.  I say "can" because he described only one way in the Patent App. and in his diagrams and pictures/videos of a physical test bed.  That is the only way I have considered.

[TinselKoala]

I understand what you are doing, and why you are doing it, and I approve. I am not trying to discourage you.

What I am doing is pointing out that you are leaving honest Wayne Travis a huge hole to wriggle out of.

Just like you tell me that the Cartesian Diver is irrelevant to the real Zed (it isn't) and that the spring-loaded automatic bollard doesn't do what you have been showing the single Zed does (it does)..... honest Wayne Travis will look at your completed analysis, and will respond in one of two ways. Or maybe both.

If your "OU" numbers hold up in the correctly-modelled spreadsheet (they won't) he will say "I told you so all along" and if your numbers do NOT hold up once you've modelled correctly and re-inserted reality in the form of masses, compressibility, viscosity and so on.... he will simply say, "Thanks fellas... but the real Zed, which is now horizontal and which we call the Rotary Taz.... doesn't work that way at all, you have left out some important steps and it's really too bad you aren't worth your salt. I'll pray for you anyway."

[TinselKoala]

In the real ZED the production is the lift from the risers, in the version in the videos that lift is resisted by a hydraulic ram that charges up the external accumulator.

So the internal forces raise the risers, the risers moving up move the production ram and compress the fluid in the ram and that fluid passes into the accumulator and gets stored, from there it is distributed to the flow assist rams and they apply there force against the lever connecting the two bags together.

In the "ideal ZED" this part is not being considered.

You left something out, Webby. Can you find it in the text below?

paejnrcnan oe ohropa rThatPortionOfProductionThatIsUsedOutsideTheZedsnanrf;o'ian ca hfn'

Whatever pressure or leverage or force that is used OUTSIDE, the part that isn't returned in the Flow Assist, the 600 percent OU part that runs external generators.... there will be a pressure drop once the hydraulic fluid has done its outside work. Right? So when this now lower pressure fluid is.... well, just what is done with it? Where is it in your model?

[minnie]

  "The math does not lie" As far as we know this is a passive device.
   If we have no losses,what would the expected answer be?
   If there is excess energy, where does it come from?
                                John.