KARPEN PILE

[profitis]

I also want to add: the rules of electrochemistry are set in stone so to say that the energy is coming from 'somewhere else' and not from common gaseous overpotential differences is like expecting a normal batterie's power to be coming from mars when its just common elecrtochemistry.

[Philip Hardcastle]

@profitis, you say that nothing external varies the output of the Karpen, what I would like to know is are there any experiments supporting that, and if so can you give me a link?


As to the issue of the need for a Demon, I think your statement is too wide, I agree that there are some 2lot violating ideas that do not fit with the classic demon, I say sebithenco is one as it does not require energy to be expended to do the sorting of kinetic energies, but I am not sure about if the Karpen does costless energy sorting, or not.


Have you actually built a Karpen? and if so have you tested it photo sensitivity.


As you may know light can cause impermanent chemical changes, the fact that a Karpen cell exists in a jar in a non light shielded room, and has worked for decades doing useful work, would lead any reasonable person to ask if the diurnal effects are an issue that need to be explored. You cannot declare the Karpen to be a perpetual cell if you have no proof that it is not simply a photocell.


I am not saying you are wrong, but I am simply stating that people questioned the sebithenco on the same issues, I had to prove no photo or Rf influence, no temperature gradient, and no radioactiviy before I could myself conclude that it was a proved violator, then I had other people do the experiment (5 different people in 5 different locations) and confirm my findings. Then I carried out 100s of experiments to test everything I could that would influence the Sebithenco, and all this has been over years, only with all that can I state with a scientific level of proof that the Sebithenco is a 2LOT violator. I cannot simply accept from you a blanket statement that nothing can influence the Karpen output, and in fact if there is no correlation with ambient temperature it suggests that the Karpen's energy is not coming from heat. So if you have some evidence re putting the karpen in a controlled environment you should state it now, otherwise I cannot see much point in discussing the device further.

[profitis]

Mr hardcastle..either the suggested cells I have diagrammed will power an ipod or radio for its FULL lifespan anywhere anytime OR it will not.nothing inbetween.it is not of commercial interest wether it is a 2lot violation or not.that is purely a scientific curiosity.but for the sake of scientific curiosity if we are to agree with the laws of electrochemistry then we must go by them and nothing else.if there is an gradient available for electrochemical catalytic gaseous spillover then by the suggestion of textbooks,it must happen.so let us simplify this even further to make it more clear,let's cut out the electrochemistry alltogether: we take a catalyst particle eg platinum and a substrate particle eg carbon,shove them under hydrogen and contact them 2gether,the textbooks tell us that spillover will take place,who are we to argue? We now seperate them again..what happens now phil?

[Philip Hardcastle]

Yoi talk about separating real world things as though the energy to do that is zero.


All I know of the Karpen is that there is one, not yours, that has been outputting a small amount of useful power for IRC 60 years. What I do not know is if it gets energy from the environment or chemically, but since the device has not corroded to total mush then I must conclude it is getting energy from an external source. So the question is; is it thermal, light, RF, vibration or something else?


So far you have not given me any information that can answer this most basic question.


As to LAWS, if i do not respect the 2nd Law then there is little point in asking me blindly to accept another law.


My work has always been to get to the essence of what is going on when we see some effect, whether that is thermionic or otherwise, so if I can get a handle on the Karpen I would need to understand the action at an atomic or molecular level, in other words given 2 chemical equations that you would say are reversible I would need to know the mechanism that drives them one way and then the other, somewhere in that understanding we would need to see a flow of energy if it is at times endothermic. Again for all I know the secret to the Karpen that has been having scientists scratch their heads for the last 60 years could be light or even biological.


Profits I am not being difficult but I know how the sebithenco works and how it is a 2LOT violator, but as yet I have no real understanding of if the Karpen violates 2LOT, and I suspect it is a rational conclusion to say there is a mystery to be solved, otherwise it would seem strange that 100s of scientists have failed to explain it if all it is, is a simple chemical equation pair.

[profitis]

The only single question you need to ask yourself mr hardcastle is this: is catalytic gaseous spillover from one particle onto another,100percent reversable.it boils down to this and this alone. If it is then its a clean violation of kelvin rule.if it isn't then its not.so its either A or B.nothing inbetween