KARPEN PILE

[profitis]

Thanks pomodoro.you want to literally try liquid mercury in a pool at bottom of flask,one strand thin mercurized(by dipping in Hg(NO3)2 aq.) copper wire in contact with it.mercury has such a high overpotential for H2 that even at current densities of less than 0.0001A its voltage is around 0.6-0.9 according to textbooks so it looks a highly promising candidate.graphiteis a must-try too for 2 reasons,it has also quite a monster overpotential at minute current densities and according to wikipedias list a very large ACTIVATION OVERPOTENTIAL.graphite is also infact more chemically inert than our metal counterparts.

[profitis]

I find it impossible for every single known inert material to register the same voltage as the standard hydrogen electrode,otherwise they wouldve used any material as opposed to platinum(black) for all standard reference measurements.many labs around the world have already measured the classic platinum black vs platinum shiny hydrogen rest potential and it is absolutely not the same,and that's both made of the same material(!)

[profitis]

The details of karpens hydrogen experiments seem to be very hard to track down on the net and I would appreciate it if anybody can locate those papers.piles a hydrogene empruntant leur energie au milieu ambiant.Acad de Sci,paris 1948 t.218 p.228.  Also piles a oxygene empruntant leur energie au milieu ambiant.Acad de sci,paris 1944 t.226 p.1273

[pomodoro]

Pomodoro thanks again for all the time and money you have put into testing out Profitis' ideas.  I think that you have gone above and beyond with your efforts.  Despite the negative results, well conducted experiments like yours are useful demonstrations of the care that it takes to conduct a good experiment.

If Profitis wishes to challenge your results, then I think he is going to have to come up with those text book references that he has long claimed back his contentions, and/or conduct defensible experiments such as you have, but which generate results consistent with rather than contradictory to his claims.

Thanks for your kind words MarkE.
I've worked as a chemist for 24 years but I am not an expert electrochemist.  Now let me admit that electrochemistry upto 3rd year university level is about where it stops for me.  Any more , such as some of the heavy stuff in the paper I posted is above my level of understanding. It would take a person with a phD in electrochemistry to really understand every aspect of such research.

Although a scientist I do occasionally look an non conventional theories with an open mind. The Karpen pile popped up on some random google search and I took a liking to it, simply beacuse it involves electrochemistry and I was able to gather the required gear.

I understand that there are occasionally massive egos and other obstacles in this field, but I focussed on the task at hand, nothing more.

I seem to detect that  in this Karpen field of study, on this site, there have possibly been heated discussions, but I have not at all bothered to search or read any other posts, except for this thread, so I still don't know what exactly Profitis or others has said and I dont feel like bothering to read. 

So, as you have  seen, there were some goofs, some great initial results and finally some not so great ones. 
I however am completely satisfied with myself, that I learned from the initial mistakes and the last unsuccesful experiments were indeed correct.

In electrochemistry, dioxygen is a real problem.  Any dihydrogen really needs to be passed over  very hot copper turnings or powder before being introduced in a constant pressure, constant flow system such as what I used. 

I was too afraid to use this system of purification and dioxygen from the industrial hydrogen kept getting into the flask.   Ultra high purity dihydrogen solved this problem.

My suggestion to any replicators is to use a small volume sealed system right from the beginning.  Fuse all wires to the cell material  and when filled with solution and dihydrogen, fuse  openings, do not rely on glues and other material. And please, remove all dioxygen possible, and do not anodise the cathodes for the early experiments. Keep the cathode pure metal.  Use your intellect to generate dihydrogen separately with Al/HaOH to fill a balloon and use this to dilute the small volume of air in your cell. Then seal it permanently.

Profitis gave me lots to work with and I am thankful of that as I would not have got to this stage as quickly.  Unfortunately I presently cant agree with him as far as the cells I tried are concerned.  I cant at all comment  on the oxygen karpens as I have not looked into these and don't really want to in the near future.

All I can say to investors in this technology is good luck!

[pomodoro]

Profitus, here is what I found, its in french and have no idea of what it says. 

Please translate it and if its interesting I might give it a go.