Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[MarkE]

As you can see in my pic above,even when the reed switch is closer to one pole than the other,it will still remain open. I have mapped a long PM with the reed switch,and guess what-->yes,the peanut shape is clearly drawn around the magnet.
A ballance would come only from the center point of the magnet,and it clearly dose not.

In regards to your statement ,Quote: If I suspend a weight by a rope, have I cancelled the field of gravity on the weight? Of course not, I have just balanced its force downward by another force upward.

And what would be the net result of two equal and opposite forces?, Thats right=0

Please run your hall sensor test as you think it should be done TK,and let us know how it go's.

Wonder if it turns out the same as the reed switch test,the inductor test,the ferrofluid test,and one more yet to come.

No evidence supports this idea of yours.  We have been through it over and over again.  When shown that the figure eight depiction does not show up in experiments you offer the special pleading that it is really there but hidden by superposition.  The problem with your superposition claim is that we can superimpose lots of slices of any magnet and we get the familiar and correct contiguous contours from pole to pole.  There is nothing special about deciding to treat the one magnet as a concatention of two, or three, or five hundred magnets.  Once all the vector addition is done, the net field behaves just as conventional science tells us.  It appears as only one contiguous contour from one pole to the other and not as some greater number of sub loops.

[MarkE]

Note what they have to say about useing iron filings to show a magnetic field.
http://www.magnetage.com/The_Figure_Eight_WYWS.html

All that is showing is that the flux density concentrates at the poles.

[tinman]

No evidence supports this idea of yours.  We have been through it over and over again.  When shown that the figure eight depiction does not show up in experiments you offer the special pleading that it is really there but hidden by superposition.  The problem with your superposition claim is that we can superimpose lots of slices of any magnet and we get the familiar and correct contiguous contours from pole to pole.  There is nothing special about deciding to treat the one magnet as a concatention of two, or three, or five hundred magnets.  Once all the vector addition is done, the net field behaves just as conventional science tells us.  It appears as only one contiguous contour from one pole to the other and not as some greater number of sub loops.

In actual fact,i have performed many experiments that support my claim,and the best you have to offer is the iron filings. The field around a magnet changes over a distance from on pole to another-->the field between poles is NOT the same,and where this transition takes place is a null zone,a zone where there is no magnetic field potential. This zone dosnt attract feromagnetic material,it dosnt induce flux into an inductor,and it wont even close a reed switch,and yet here you are telling other people how to conduct experiments to show this mystical field of yours. No,dont do it that way TK,or it will show exactly what the other team are saying-a dip in magnetic field strength near the center of the magnet-
Quote: Unless you've got a really long magnet, the only place where the flux perpendicular to the magnet and therefore through the Hall sensor falls to zero is half way between the north and south poles.
Now why would it fall to 0 if there is a field there?. A magnetic field has no lines of force,nor some mystical flow of something-it's either there or its not. The way it sounds like your trying to explain it Mark is like saying you have to put your finger in a glass of water a certain way before it gets wet.
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You contradict your self when you say things like-the hall sensor must face this way,as thats the way the flux is flowing.
What bollocks is this,flux dosnt flow,and field lines only show up in your iron filing experiment,and yet you know as well as i do that there is NO lines of flux-->but you assure us that the iron filings experiment is correct --.fancy that,a correct test method that shows us things that we all know arnt there.
There is two states of a magnetic field-an increase in field strength,and a decrease in field strength of each pole,and when mapped out in many different ways,it IS the shape of a peanut or figure 8.

Where are all your own test Mark?

[minnie]

Tinman,
             how does diagram in reply 755 fit in with your ideas?
             Thank you John.

[MarkE]

In actual fact,i have performed many experiments that support my claim,and the best you have to offer is the iron filings. The field around a magnet changes over a distance from on pole to another-->the field between poles is NOT the same,and where this transition takes place is a null zone,a zone where there is no magnetic field potential. This zone dosnt attract feromagnetic material,it dosnt induce flux into an inductor,and it wont even close a reed switch,and yet here you are telling other people how to conduct experiments to show this mystical field of yours.

Of all of those, the only statement that is correcT is that the field around a magnet changes over distance from pole to pole.  It has been shown to you but for some reason you choose to ignore it that the flux density perpendicular to a dipole goes to zero midway between the poles.  The flux density parallel to the dipole axis does not go to zero anywhere.  It just gets smaller and smaller the further one moves from the dipole.  It does so at a 1/r³ rate.

No,dont do it that way TK,or it will show exactly what the other team are saying-a dip in magnetic field strength near the center of the magnet-

I have not told TK not to perform any experiment.

Quote: Unless you've got a really long magnet, the only place where the flux perpendicular to the magnet and therefore through the Hall sensor falls to zero is half way between the north and south poles.

Now why would it fall to 0 if there is a field there?

there is a field there, but at the midpoint the flux is all oriented parallel to the magnet and none perpendicular to the magnet.

A magnetic field has no lines of force,nor some mystical flow of something-it's either there or its not. The way it sounds like your trying to explain it Mark is like saying you have to put your finger in a glass of water a certain way before it gets wet.

Whatever it may sound like to you, at any point where the flux density is zero in some direction is no different than standing on a surface that is flat in one direction, such as a level ramp.  Gravity does not apply any force along the horizontal axis.

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You contradict your self when you say things like-the hall sensor must face this way,as thats the way the flux is flowing.

A Hall effect sensor detects flux density that runs perpendicular to the sensor surface.  Just as a weigh scale must be oriented horizontally to find the force of gravity acting on some mass, a Hall effect sensor's plane must be oriented perpendicular to the direction of flux that you would like to detect with it.  If one wants to detect the flux density running perpendicular to a magnet the sensor's plane must be oriented parallel to the magnet.  If one wants to detect the flux density running parallel to a magnte the sensor's plane must be perpendicular to the magnet.

What bollocks is this,flux dosnt flow,and field lines only show up in your iron filing experiment,and yet you know as well as i do that there is NO lines of flux-->but you assure us that the iron filings experiment is correct --.fancy that,a correct test method that shows us things that we all know arnt there.

I don't know what has got you all tied up in the knots that you are in.  But you keep compounding one wrong assertion on top of another.

There is two states of a magnetic field-an increase in field strength,and a decrease in field strength of each pole,and when mapped out in many different ways,it IS the shape of a peanut or figure 8.

The flux density of a dipole magnet is highest at the poles.  That should be self-evident.  The field contour of a dipole magnet is continuous from pole to pole.

Where are all your own test Mark?

I have performed many tests.  What specifically would you like to see?

The only thing that I can figure here is that you are hung up on the fact that field lines are just a mapping mechanism. Just as the density of contour lines on an elevation map indicate slope, the density of contour lines in a magnetic field representation indicate magnetic flux density.