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Overunity Machines Forum



Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

Started by hartiberlin, September 27, 2014, 05:54:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 22 Guests are viewing this topic.

TinselKoala

Quote from: Newton II on October 06, 2014, 09:00:42 AM
I have few interesting (crazy) questions:

1)  If you charge a van de graph generator to full extent, fix it on a truck and run the truck with 100km/hr speed will the generator sphere
     create a 'mega magnetic field'?  Because moving charges should create magnetic field.   If not 'Why'?
It does. But the strength of the field depends on the velocity as well as the number of moving charges. Even at 100 km/hr you are moving too slowly and even a good VDG, fully charged to the point of corona leakage, will contain a tiny number of excess charges. A Coulomb is a huge amount of charge to have on a static system but it is only one ampere for one second of electrical current.
The numbers involved are so large, so small, and the electromagnetic force is so strong that our intuitions break down when we try to grasp the phenomenon fully. Some experience actually working with high voltages both "static" and "dynamic" helps one to understand, I think.
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2)  Negative and positive charges are characteristically  opposite charges. So, when a moving negative charge produces magnetic field, a
     moving positive charge should produce anti-magnetic field.  But it just produces a magnetic field in opposite direction corresponding to
     the negative charge flow. 'Why'?   
You are once again asking the "why is there air" type question. Why do things fall down, instead of up?
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3)  When moving charges (current) produces a magnetic field, reversely a moving magnetic field should produce an electric current. That is
     the principle used in an Electric generator.  But all generators are AC generators (alternators)  in which the current is first generated
     only in AC form  and later converted to DC by using split ring commutator.   A moving magnetic field cannot straightaway produce a
     DC.   'Why?'     

Can any genious answer?
Your assumptions are wrong. All generators are _not_ AC generators (alternators) and the fact that it is sometimes easier to produce AC than DC as a final output is a matter of geometry and construction. In fact "all generators" are DC generators, since the motion of the current, the field and the conductor are strictly related. The only reason you wind up with AC output from _some_ generators is because the things are cyclical, circular and are driven around and around, and efficiency requires use of both magnetic polarities in the circular machine. So you have one direction of motion but two directions of field, as the device rotates. But if you only use one polarity of field you can easily get DC only. I suggest you research the Faraday Dynamo, aka Homopolar Motor/Generator. Any time you have a conductor moving wrt magnetic field you have a DC current induced in the conductor, whose strength depends on the relative speed of motion (the component of the motion that is at 90 degrees to the field lines, the vector cross product) and the strength of the field. But the Faraday Dynamo shows that 1) a conductor moving in a magnetic field gets a DC current induced in it as long as the motion proceeds in one direction; and 2) the "field" doesn't rotate with the magnet, like a naive picture of "lines of force" might make you believe.

(And it's spelt "genius" ...  ;) )

TinselKoala

Quote from: Liberty on October 06, 2014, 09:52:20 AM
Wonderful evidence of an intelligent designer (creator) that perfectly formed what we are just beginning to understand, just how He designed things to work in the universe.  We have the opportunity to personally come to understand and know what that intelligent engineer (creator) of perfection knows, and what he can further reveal to us and teach us about His universe and ourselves?  A close relationship with the great engineer of the universe: (Jesus Christ) that engineered the functioning of the electron, the magnetic fields, and the entire atomic world and universe.  To gain more knowledge and understanding from the original source of all knowledge and wisdom and power.  The Alpha and Omega.  (The beginning and the end).

No, you have just emitted a classic "Argument from Ignorance". This takes this form: We don't know why this seemingly miraculous stuff exists, therefore it is because God willed it.

There is no evidence for the conclusion, contained in the premises. I could just as well tell you NO, not your God, but rather the Flying Spaghetti Monster made all of this, three days ago, and planted false memories of childhood in everybody, just for fun.

Your conclusion may be true, or it may be false ... but your premises and your mode of reasoning do not support either conclusion. You have left Science behind and are talking about _your_ Faith. Yours. And it's a faith that is failing, outmoded, obsolete, in this modern world.

Panul

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 06, 2014, 11:37:22 AM
No, you have just emitted a classic "Argument from Ignorance". This takes this form: We don't know why this seemingly miraculous stuff exists, therefore it is because God willed it.

There is no evidence for the conclusion, contained in the premises. I could just as well tell you NO, not your God, but rather the Flying Spaghetti Monster made all of this, three days ago, and planted false memories of childhood in everybody, just for fun.

Your conclusion may be true, or it may be false ... but your premises and your mode of reasoning do not support either conclusion. You have left Science behind and are talking about _your_ Faith. Yours. And it's a faith that is failing, outmoded, obsolete, in this modern world.


And who says logic is everything there is and that the only means to explain our reality. What is considered logic i could tell you is a lacking tool and maybe a mistaken one as well. most things in nature point to a creator but today's intellectual narcissism tries to explain everything logically and put god out of the equation. but usually this narcissism ends up fooling itself. what is the logical process you go through when you love your child? when you trust you wife with blind faith at home and dont send private detectives to search her to make an extreme example, and you trust to live your life with her. or when you trust any person, friends etc. (and if God is a personal entity why to think the relationship can be based on anything else than trust but instead in egoistical attempts to discover him with our brainpower?(like all dumb intellectual narcissists try to do and in fact just chase their tail)). whats the logic behind heroes that sacrifice themselves for the others? whats the logic behind a mother's love that can die to protect her child? whats the logic of believing a series of random events can create a spectacular universe, with physical laws, mathematically understandable, hospital to humans etc? and dont start with your national geographic documentaries stuff about the planet being hostile. you know very well what im talking about. about a gazillion of "ridiculous coincidences" that allowed and allow us to live and develop here as a species. how comes we are the only logical being with a soul? why didnt other species "evolve like us"? why people have inate inclination to spirituality and search for meaning of existance? how comes babies from the womb of their mother without developed brain gain experiences, understand things etc if there is no soul and there is only brain? how comes patients with brain death arent really dead and the body still does living functions if there isnt a soul that keeps the human alive? i dont know what you say about spaghetti monsters but the miracles happen in the name of Jesus Christ the God of my religion. this saint for example that is dead for 50 years and his skin is like that of a sleeping baby. imperishable holy relics is a common phenomenon in christianity amongst many other godgiven miracles. how can the laws of nature be overcome if not by their creator? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSaiQGVatZE

bboj

Now we do know why, or rather how, a boat makes a bow wave. You can't really move through the water without making one and the faster you go the bigger the wave. Charges make magnetic fields as they move relative to the observer. If the observer moves along with the charge... you don't see the magnetic field (because the field just describes how a thing will move and you are already moving that way) but you do see the electric field from the charge which isn't moving with respect to you. Now that duality of electric and magnetic fields, discriminated only by relative motion, is, to me, a grand mystery of the Universe. "Why" does that happen? Well, some people believe that that question can be answered in a meaningful way, and that's why they go out and build particle accelerators and learn complex mathematics. I just look around in awe, myself, and give thanks that things are the way they are. Maybe they could be different... but I doubt it. eta: The electron's charge cannot be removed from it, but an electron isn't "just" a packet of the Unit Negative charge. It has mass and spin angular momentum as well. What is really weird is that it does not appear to have a "size"... it is considered a point particle, or a probability cloud.




Now we are getting there.
English is not my first language so my questions can be a bit confusing.

Panul

moderator why you dont post my comment?