Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[sparks]

   From a very basic observation a permanent magnet is an increase in order.  Just like a capacitor is an increase in order.  Just like a planet is an increase in order.   This increase in order extends beyond the observable limits of the matter involved and is a condition of the aether or spacetime continuom.  This condition of the aether is called a field.  A magnetic field will produce an effect that counters energetic forces or radiative forces.  Not so different from a planet "attracting" an asteroid into an orbit.  Once the asteroid radiates enough energy or chaos it increases the gravitational field of the planet system.  Once the metal filing or compass needle comes to rest the magnetic field of the system is increased and the energy of the system is decreased.
  This is why a current produces a magnetic field.  The electrons moving randomly within the conductor move less randomly.  This less random movement is an increase in order therefore the increase in order manifests as a change in the condition of the aether we call the magnetic field.

[allcanadian]

@Nobull

A Hall effect sensor indicates a strong magnetic field near the midpoint of a bar magnet despite the lack of a force on an iron ball placed there.

Are you sure?
Maybe we need some real data rather than simply speculating what may be happening.


I used my analog hall effect probe to take the following measurements.


1)Hall face to pole face
I had the face of the hall sensor pointed at the North pole and moved the sensor slowly towards the north pole, down the side and past the south end of the 1" dia x 1" N42 neo magnet.
Note the field strength increases as I approach the north pole then when perpendicular to the end of the magnet the polarity switches abruptly. Moving down the side of the magnet the polarity is indicated as south and not changing. Then when the probe face is perpendicular to the south pole the polarity changes from south back to north on leaving the south pole.


We should note that when the front face of the all sensor is facing the north pole it indicates a north polarity and when the back side of the sensor is facing the south pole it also indicates north polarity.


2)Hall face to side near
Here I was pointing the hall sensor face at the side of the magnet and not towards the poles. I moved the hall sensor face down the side of the magnet with the sensor physically touching the magnet.


3)Hall face to side far
Here once again I was pointing the hall sensor face at the side of the magnet and not towards the poles. I moved the hall sensor face down the side of the magnet approximately one inch away from the magnet. I moved the probe by the magnet twice, N to S, which is why there are two separate deflections a distance apart on the graph.


I will let you guys decide what you think you see happening based on these measurements and if you want a specific measurement performed I can do that. I can also boost the field amplification on the sensor for very far or very sensitive field measurements.


Regards
AC

[picowatt]

I am sure no-one disputes the Fact that the Earth has an Equator because of its Magnetic Field?

When referring to Earth's equator, it is usually assumed that it is the geographic equator that is being referred to.  As others have posted, the definition of this equator is with regard to Earth's "spin" axis.  Just like other celestial bodies that have spin, but do not have magnetic fields, the Earth would still have a geographic equator even if it did not have a magnetic field.

There is also a "geomagnetic" equator, which is located with regard to the "magnetic" axis of the Earth.  However, because the spin axis and magnetic axis are not similarly located, the geographic and geomagnetic equators do not define the same locations on the Earth's surface.  (Keep in mind that the Earth has a very complex magnetic field and that to model it as a bar magnet positioned thru the magnetic axis is, at best, a very simplistic representation.)

I could only agree with your statement above if you stated "the Earth has a "geomagnetic" equator because of its magnetic field".

With or without its magnetic field, the Earth would still have the more commonly referred to "geographic" equator.

I said:

ANYTHING that Constitutes a Lack of or Change of the conditions seen at each Pole, between the Poles of a Permanent Magnet, is a Bloch Wall or more commonly known as an Equator!

I find this statement very confusing with regard to the discussions on this thread.  It seems that you want to redefine words that already have agreed upon and accepted definitions.  The above statement neither defines a "Bloch wall" or an "equator".

Just like the word "equator", "Bloch wall" has a specific definition.  Most everyone seems to be in agreement that there are domains within a magnet, and therefore, are seemingly in agreement with their being Bloch walls between those domains (as per the definition of "Bloch wall").  By definition, there are domains, and therefore Bloch walls, scattered throughout a magnet. Most certainly there are Bloch walls at the midpoint of a magnet, but no more so or less than the Bloch walls that exist throughout the entire magnet.

However, some here seem to advocate that there is a different sort of "Bloch wall" at the midpoint between the poles of a magnet that is somehow different from the accepted definition of "Bloch wall".

Your statement,

"ANYTHING that Constitutes a Lack of or Change of the conditions seen at each Pole, between the Poles of a Permanent Magnet, is a Bloch Wall or more commonly known as an Equator!"

besides providing incorrect definitions of rather specific words, seems to be more so in agreement with field lines being, for the most part, parallel to a bar magnet at the midpoint between the poles (as is generally accepted).

In a previous posting, you posted an image/drawing of a cube magnet with field lines leaving one pole and re-entering the magnet at its midsection, with field lines then re-emerging from that midsection and continuing onward to the opposite pole.  It is this configuration that I always thought the "Bloch wall at the midpoint of a magnet" supporters advocated.

Your "definition" above seems to be in disagreement with this "field in/field out at the midpoint of a magnet" scenario, as field lines dipping into and out of the midpoint would definitely "constitute a change".  Additionally, the individual field curls that would be assumed to be associated with this "field in/field out at the midpoint of a magnet" scenario would seemingly be more so similar to what is observed at the magnet's poles, which would also be in disagreement with your definition above. 

Various images you have posted seem to support, for the most part, the standard convention.  Some images presented (such as the cube magnet drawing discussed above) appear to support the "field in/field out at the midpoint of a magnet" proposition.

So, after many pages of debate, and reading your "definition" above, I must admit, I am no longer certain what it is you are advocating.

Is it your position that a definite change in the nature of the field of a magnet DOES occur at the midpoint between the poles of a magnet, wherein the field lines emerging from one pole re-enter (curl into) that midpoint and then re-emerge from (curl out of) that midpoint and continue onward to the opposing pole?

PW

[EMJunkie]

Maybe we need some real data rather than simply speculating what may be happening.

@AC - You have done an Experiment and have HARD DATA! It appears that this is not enough for the naysayers here in this forum!

I wonder what the Zero Indication near the Central Point between the Poles is showing?

AC you have my respect as an adventurer in Science!

Well Done! Excellent Work!

Kind Regards

  Chris

[MileHigh]

I would say that as I look at AC's data and use his descriptions and try to visualize the situation it all looks pretty normal to me.  For example, if you slide a Hall sensor down the long side of a bar magnet, and the sensor is flat on the side of the magnet, you would expect to see zero flux recorded at the center of the magnet and increasing flux with opposite polarity as you go in either direction.  That's exactly what you see in "2)Hall face to side near."

You are claiming a lot of hollow victories Chris.  It's Bizarro.