Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[tinman]

If you don't treat the low grade heat generated by the resistance as a loss, then you are correct.
...however entropy still increases even if energy is not being "lost".
I don't think that you need to prove that over non-integer number of cycles, because it is widely known that magnets can do non-zero work in that scenario.
Hoever, if you want to prove that magnets can do the same over integer number of cycles, than you are welcomed to try.

Im still not quite sure these cycles apply here. If we discharge the stored energy in a capacitor through say and LED,then has not that half cycle done useful work?

And why were on the subject of stored energy,do you think that a permanent magnet is an energy storage device/medium?.

[MarkE]

What we want to do is prove that a PM can do useful work,as most say it cant.

It is both a simple and daunting task:  Show an energy balance where more work comes out of a machine built with a magnet than goes in, and show that it is the magnet that supplies that energy.

This is good to know.Learn something new every day. When i heard those in the know say that charging capacitors was lossey,i thought it was to do with the capacitor itself.

It is and it isn't.  If you charge a capacitor by connecting to a hard voltage source or a hard voltage source through a resistor, then it takes 2X energy.  If you charge it through an ideal inductor and ideal switch and the capacitor is ideal then it takes 1.0X.  In real life you can get to 1.01X with some effort.

So if heat is being produced,then useful work is being done?-and the energy is not lost?

If heating the room is your goal, then yes.  If it is not, then not so much.

[MarkE]

Im still not quite sure these cycles apply here. If we discharge the stored energy in a capacitor through say and LED,then has not that half cycle done useful work?

It is.  But that is just part of a cycle.

And why were on the subject of stored energy,do you think that a permanent magnet is an energy storage device/medium?.

Of course it is.

[verpies]

Im still not quite sure these cycles apply here. If we discharge the stored energy in a capacitor through say and LED,then has not that half cycle done useful work?

Yes, but it's not free energy because this capacitor must have been charged in the first half of the cycle.
The out/in energy ratio which is the basis of efficiency calculation, must be calculated over an integer number of cycles.

And why were on the subject of stored energy,do you think that a permanent magnet is an energy storage device/medium?.

Yes, because the magnetizing machine (a hefty coil) has injected energy into the magnet while magnetizing its unpolarized hard ferromagnetic sintered powder (or alloy) in the factory.  The sintered powder did not depolarize after the magnetizing machine was turned off because some of its domains got stuck on pinning centers, resulting in permanent remanent magnetization of the magnet.

[tinman]

Yes, but it's not free energy because this capacitor must have been charged in the first half of the cycle.

No-where not after free energy here,we just want to show a permanent magnet doing useful work.

Yes, because the magnetizing machine (a hefty coil) has injected energy into the magnet while magnetizing its unpolarized magnet material in the factory.  The magnet material did not depolarize after the magnetizing machine was turned off because some of its domains got stuck on pinning centers, resulting in permanent remanent magnetization of the magnet.

Truly excellent
Now we just have to put all this together.