The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[T-1000]

Hi there,

I wonder where are everyone at with tests of passing iron core between magnets and coils in experimental generators.
This would be interesting to know...

[MarkE]

Thanks Mark, I kind of suspected that it might be a zero-sum type of game.  So to me that means you are back to a timing issue again.  In other words pick a coil inductance that gives you a magnetic field of a certain strength within a certain amount of time so that you can match it with the attributes of your rotor and the speeds that you want to run at, etc.  I suppose you are always thinking about not overloading the battery either because the battery becomes less efficient at higher current draws.

Well this depends on what kind of drive you intend to use.  While the current is changing, eddy currents cancel most of the net flux change.  So having a higher voltage drive to overcome the inductance quickly offers advantage, provided that it then chops to hold the current at the desired level. 

If you are going to use a simple ON/OFF type drive the L/R time constant tends to drop out as well.  R and L are both proportional to N².  Low voltage and high current cause efficiency problems in other parts of the circuit, and N affects the BEMF constant as well as the torque constant.  If you want to use integrated drivers, they go up to about 40V and 2.5A.  If you need more oomph than that, the design goes discrete.  Up to 10A is relatively easy to handle.  When you go above 10A and 40V then you have to start worrying about safety issues, packages get crappier inductance wise and the whole design task gets much bigger.

Here is what would be a good pulse motor competition but I think it's beyond what you will see around here:  I am going to assume at typical true-RMS meter requires a 25 Hz or higher periodic waveform to work properly.  Let's say every participant has to put 3 watts AC into a load resistor with a value of their choice.  This comes from a generator coil and the waveform period has to correspond to 25 Hz or higher.  So the competition would be to build a pulse motor to do that, and the winner is the person that builds the pulse motor that requires the least amount of average input power.  There would have to be near-zero direct coupling between the drive coil(s) and the generator coil and every competitor in the contest would have to prove this.

An off the shelf toroidal transformer would win under those rules.

The other good thing about this competition is that the back-EMF spike from the drive coil is now pretty much useless and of no importance.  So people would have rethink that one-track-mind business about collecting the back-spike into a capacitor.

Not really.  The stored energy regeneration from discharging coil magnetization energy is reclaimed stored energy just like the energy reclaimed from dynamic braking is.  Reclaiming the energy back into the power source reduces net power requirements and keeps the drive electronics relatively cool.  In step motors and DC brushless motors the current has to reverse often.  Reclaiming the L*I[sup2[/sup] energy helps keep the electronics running cool and safely within rated voltage limits.  You can kind of think of this process as a crazy driver who runs their car back and forth without ever turning around:  Full blast forward acceleration, forward cruise, deceleration to stop, then full blast reverse acceleration, reverse cruise, and then forward acceleration to stop completing the cycle.

A good competition where you have to agonize about minimizing your input power for the same output power.  It would be really cool and it's a reflection of the real world where engineers struggle with that issue every day when they design portable electronics devices.

MileHigh

[Jimboot]

GUYS WHY HAS THIS THREAD BEEN TAKEN OVER BY PULSE MOTOR CRAP!
THERE IS ANOTHER ONE OR TWO THREADS ALREADY OPEN FOR THAT TOPIC PLEASE DON'T FLOOD THIS TOPIC UNLESS IT HAS SOMETHING CLOSE TO WHAT SYAIR ORIGINALLY POSTED FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

Yeah Hey guys, there's people trying to work here. If you could just take it down the street to the pub, that'd be great.    Sounds like a great debate you're having, it's just that its getting in the way of the work. Stefan do we need another thread? It'd be great to share our stuff here but it sure is getting noisy. 


Love to talk about  principles specific to this motor:
Best materials for fast pole switching. - I've used laminate steel, ferrite. My next set of steels will be steel shot based on Paul Babcock's work. We need something that will flip it's poles quick and that is what Paul is suggesting.


Cylinder Rotors Vs Disc
I've had no luck with discs.


Cogging
I over came this by placing the mags as close as possible to each other and have a lot fewer rotor irons. My last video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kbDQuoERA

What coils and where do we put them.
Keeping in mind this is a different sort of motor so is the flux we are trying to capture in the same spot? Certainly on some of my design I was getting higher readings perpendicular to the rotor.


Specifically where is BEMF in this design?
I'm not saying it is absent, I just visually need to understand where it is. What pole is it, what does look like, what footy team does support etc. When steel passes a mag what specfically happens to the bemf when we draw the current from a pickup coil. Visually? I've been looking and can't find anything. But pass a magnet over a coil? No probs, got heaps of that info out there. Not necessary here though as we need to no now what happens to it this config. Love a drawing of that if someone can find one.


At the moment I'm building my 6th basic design and probably 12th motor. I'll upload the vid soon

[Jimboot]

.

[georgio78]

HEY GUYS I RECENTLY PURCHASED TWO ST 4 POLE AC SYNC GENERATORS EXACTLY
AS SYAIR SHOWED IN HIS LAST VIDEO ONE GEN WILL BE THE PERMANENT MAGNET 220 RPM ALREADY ORDERED MAGNETS AND STATOR IS GETTING REWOUND AS SYAIR STATED! AND FOR THE OTHER GEN I'M PUTTING TOGETHER THE 1500 RPM HAVING IRON LAMINATIONS CUT TO SIZE AS WE SPEAK AND ALSO MY MACHINIST HAS STARTED THE WORK FOR MACHINING OF END PLATES ETC IT WILL BE THE SAME AIR GAP AS FACTORY 0.5 BOTH ENDS! ALL THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE CHEAP BUT FUCK IT I'M TAKING A GAMBLE! I HAVE CURRENTLY ONLY ONE PIC OF THE IRON LAMINATIONS TAKEN FROM THE STANDARD 4 POLE GEN ALL THIS WILL BE READY AROUND END OF JAN SO WILL NOT POST ANYTHING TILL I'M DONE ALL THE BEST GUYS FOR THE FESTIVE SEASON AND GOOD LUCK!