The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

Luc:
Nice test.
I'm surprised you have some good results right from the start.
You might want to get a base load on the drill press by replacing the device with a piece of wood and record the motor load at several RPM for future reference.
This would allow us to test whether the decrease is load is simply relieving some drag in the cores.

Maybe put together a list of changes you might want to try and what you predict they might change in it's operation.
Good start!

Thanks lumen,

well like I wrote, at first I thought it didn't work!... so interesting how increasing RPM made such a difference? ... much like ReGen-X effect works!

I agree, a baseline power consumption test should be done with just spinning the C core without the I cores in place to know how much power is being dissipated in the cores and see if that number matches the power output. Hopefully it will be lower then the output. I was planing in doing such a test.
Lots to test!
BTW, I did test placing small pieces of cores with an air gap between the I cores and that reduced the output quite a bit.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc-great video. I would like to see what the drill press draws without the coil and core under it-but leave the magnetic gate in the chuck.What i believe you will find is that without the coil and core under the rotating gate,your current draw by the drill press will be even less than it is when you have your load resistor placed across your inductor. I have found that the core's act much like a battery,and the alternating magnetic flux is what charges these batteries,and in your case,the battery is shorted. When you hook up the load to your inductor,this magnetic charge then go's through your coil,and thus current flows through your resistor,so your magnetic power(if we can call it that)is no longer trying to charge your shorted battery,and thus you see a load drop on your prime mover when you place your load resistor across the coil.Maybe placeing a load on your inductor is some how relieving the eddy current stress in the core,and this is the very thing i have been working on-eddy current stress relief.

Anyway-as alway's-great work.

Thanks Brad

I agree with you mate and why I wrote to hold off on declaring this a success. Lets hope the coil output will be just a little more then the losses.

I'll post a new video with such a test tomorrow.

Stay tuned

Luc

[havuhung]

Hi gotoluc,


Thanks.

[MileHigh]

Luc:

It's a very nice build, but you are dealing with essentially the same issues as were seen in your generator clip using the Dremel.

The efficiency of the drill press is unknown.  So you have about 150 watts of power consumption and about 5 watts going into the load resistor.  It's simply too difficult to know how many mechanical watts are going into the rotor because that is "buried" in the unknown efficiency of the drill press setup.  One thing that we do know is that the faster electrical motors run, the better they tend to perform.  That likely explains your observations when the drill press runs at a higher RPM.

When you disconnect the load resistor the power draw of the drill press goes up.  When current is flowing through the generator coil, that reduces the cogging.  We see from the beginning of your clip that the cogging is very strong.  When you disconnect the load resistor you actually hear the cogging kick in.  That's the main reason the power draw increases, because of the nasty cogging acting like a disturbance torque on the motor.

Note that you have two conflicting trends.  When you add a load resistor in theory the power draw from the prime mover increases.  In reality that does happen.  But at the same time, adding a load resistor results in current flow, and that reduces the cogging resulting in a decrease in power draw from the motor.  Even though in theory the cogging is energy-neutral, in practice you can literally hear the increased stress on the system when the cogging is happening.  These two conflicting trends make it nearly impossible for you to get the real data that you are looking for.

So, you can make measurements, but between the unknown and variable efficiency of the drill press setup, and the conflicting trends of adding a load resistor and at the same time time decreasing the cogging, it will make it essentially impossible to extract any useful data.

Note that Thane Heinz's experiments suffer from a similar problem.  The power inefficiency of his transformer setups is ignored and he just focuses on his differential power measurements.  He ignores the power inefficiency that does nothing more than produce a lot of waste heat.  His differential "efficiency improvements" are buried by all the inefficient waste heat being produced.  The waste heat is always larger than his actual power measurements.

So what is the solution?   I certainly don't know the best solution but I do know a tried and proven solution.  It's the same old thing:  If you had a big flywheel on a very good bearing, and you knew the moment of inertia of the flywheel, then you could use that as your power source.  Doing this completely eliminates the unknown efficiency of the drill press setup.  When the flywheel drives the rotor you can make a precise measurement of its deceleration.  Then you crunch the numbers and calculate the mechanical power being output by the flywheel for various test setups.  If the flywheel is large enough, then you will not have to worry about the cogging at all.  The energy-neutral cogging will not affect the flywheel like it affects the motor.

Perhaps somebody has a better idea, but the only way I can envision extracting real data from your tests is to do flywheel spin-downs.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

I am just going to reduce my posting to the bare bones:

You have to know the rotational mechanical power you are putting into the rotor.  That's the torque times the angular velocity.   Note the torque is also not constant.

If you had a reliable way to measure (a.k.a. know) the mechanical power being put into the rotor, then all of the measurements of the generator coil output would be good data.

How do you do that?  That's the proverbial sixty-four thousand dollar question.  If anybody has any ideas I am sure that Luc would be interested.