The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[ramset]

Topic also has some interesting contributors over here.


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19851-topic-new-generator-no-effect-counter-b-emf-part-2-selfrunning-9.html#post269294


thx
Chet

[Abt]

Hi Luc
thank you for sharing your results, you are doing great work! I'm watching this thread for a good while now and see most constructive postings made by yorself. Keep going!
Abt

[TinselKoala]

Guys,

JLN and TinseKoala have already shown motors that don't manifest generator action (BEMF) - the ORBO and Orbette.

To be strictly correct... only the Orbette 2.0 has actually shown this effect. It is a Core Effect motor, it does not operate by electromagnetic attraction/repulsion. Orbette 1.0 used different configurations of toroids and I never tuned it in this way. I did not find Jean-Louis's demonstration convincing, although he may have succeeded as well.

Applied current to the carefully toroidally-wound coils causes a change in the magnetic permeability of the special core material ("square" loop hysteresis in the B-H curve), saturating it magnetically.  This change in permeability reduces the attraction of the core to permanent magnets, equally without regard to magnet _or current_ polarity. This allows the non-intuitive Core Effect which drives the motor: the magnets in the rotor are attracted to the toroidal cores when the coil current is _off_ and are less attracted when the current is _on_. Again, equally without regard to either magnet or current polarity. So the Core Effect drives the rotor by allowing full strength, non-powered, attraction as the rotor magnets approach the toroid, and _reducing_ the pull back attraction as the magnets pass "bottom dead center" and begin moving away from the toroid.

This Core Effect allows one carefully to position the toroidal coil-core assembly near a double row rotor so that the fields from the magnets "null" at the position of the core assembly, hence virtually eliminating any generator effect that is normally caused by moving magnets past a coil. The unique thing about the Core Effect is that this does not affect the actual magnetic attraction to the ferrite toroid core! So it is possible to tune the motor so that no normal generator effect occurs, but the rotor is still driven strongly by the Core Effect change in permeability.

Steorn even claimed that the rotor magnets in the approach to the cores actually helped drive the cores to saturation, enabling very small currents to "finish the job" and produce the full Core Effect. I wasn't able to confirm this with my equipment and materials, but it seems likely that it is true. What isn't true is Steorn's claim that this process produced overunity performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rMGmskqXQ

However, this is a very different thing from "delayed or no Lenz effect" or the production of CEMF by current supplied to the coils. These effects happen whenever coils are supplied with (pulsed) current. The Orbette toroids still produce an inductive backspike when rapidly switched off -- which happens at a time when the magnets are maximally distant from the core!

[NoBull]

To be strictly correct... only the Orbette 2.0 has actually shown this effect. It is a Core Effect motor, it does not operate by electromagnetic attraction/repulsion.

Yes, it operates by more attraction/less attraction of a hard magnet to soft ferrite.  It is a 3D effect.
This is different (and more interesting IMO) than other pulse motors in this thread that exhibit a high yawn factor.

Applied current to the carefully toroidally-wound coils causes a change in the magnetic permeability of the special core material ("square" loop hysteresis in the B-H curve), saturating it magnetically. 

I don't think that saturation of the magnetic domain polarization in one direction is necessary to limit the polarization freedom in an orthogonal direction (a 3D effect).  When domains are polarized in one direction then they cannot easily polarize in a perpendicular direction at the same time and that lack of freedom decreases their response to external field in that perpendicular direction (this response manifests itself as permeability).

This change in permeability reduces the attraction of the core to permanent magnets, equally without regard to magnet _or current_ polarity. This allows the non-intuitive Core Effect which drives the motor: the magnets in the rotor are attracted to the toroidal cores when the coil current is _off_ and are less attracted when the current is _on_. Again, equally without regard to either magnet or current polarity. So the Core Effect drives the rotor by allowing full strength, non-powered, attraction as the rotor magnets approach the toroid, and _reducing_ the pull back attraction as the magnets pass "bottom dead center" and begin moving away from the toroid.

Yup.  I would add that this change in permeability is anisotropic and ideally its maximal decrease occurs in the direction parallel to the magnetic flux coming from the permanent magnets.

This Core Effect allows one carefully to position the toroidal coil-core assembly near a double row rotor so that the fields from the magnets "null" at the position of the core assembly, hence virtually eliminating any generator effect that is normally caused by moving magnets past a coil. The unique thing about the Core Effect is that this does not affect the actual magnetic attraction to the ferrite toroid core! So it is possible to tune the motor so that no normal generator effect occurs, but the rotor is still driven strongly by the Core Effect change in permeability.

Even more so if the core is wound with even number of back-and-forth layers so the circumferential current is cancelled and the only current remaining is all parallel to the flux coming from the parallel magnets ...which would make the H vector (MMF) very perpendicular to the flux coming from the magnets.

Steorn even claimed that the rotor magnets in the approach to the cores actually helped drive the cores to saturation, enabling very small currents to "finish the job" and produce the full Core Effect.

That makes sense because of vector addition.
Any flux perpendicular to the MMF vector (vector tangent to the circumference of the toroid) will turn the resultant vector sum away from this tangent but that vector will be longer (have larger absolute value, which is limited by the maximum B saturation level)

What isn't true is Steorn's claim that this process produced overunity performance.

Yes, they seem to made a scoposcopy error in their claim of that.

However, this is a very different thing from "delayed or no Lenz effect" or the production of CEMF by current supplied to the coils. These effects happen whenever coils are supplied with (pulsed) current.
The Orbette toroids still produce an inductive backspike when rapidly switched off -- which happens at a time when the magnets are maximally distant from the core!

Because the Orbette toroids still store magnetic field energy and this  energy has to dissipate somehow when the toroid winding becomes open.  You could recover this energy into a capacitor and recycle it for the next cycle.

Theoretically the energy stored in the coil is proportional to the polarization of the ferrite along the coil's magnetization axis (parallel to the circumference for a toroidal core) plus its MMF.

See the animated GIF below.
Note: Because this forum's software mauled the GIF file now it does not move/animate (look, the size 92.62 kB is displayed next to it, but only 5kB is getting downloaded!!!), to fix this click on the ZIP file, unpack it and view the undamaged gif file inside it in a browser.

P.S.
Somebody who knows Stefan Hartman, please tell him about this problem with corrupted GIF files.

[Jimboot]

This is different (and more interesting IMO) than other pulse motors in this thread that exhibit a high yawn factor.

Maybe you should go and post in the Orbo thread then