The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[Jimboot]

In experiments with alternating magnets passing by coils the coil responses are different from stationary magnetic polarities passing coils. This is what Jim, me and some other people are experiencing when setting up the test cases in experiments. Some people might deny that and flood another 1000 forum pages stating opposite without making experiment but that is not going to change behavior of coils in that scenario.
My concept which is laid out in my posts here have grounds on experiments and it is not a just  theory anymore...

Cheers!

Yep well said, no one is spinning mags here. If lenz is not getting in the way but is still there MAYBE, maybe it is something that can be harvested. I was thinking about something that TK said as well with his analogy of a hose. Pin the power in power out calcs though I don't understand where the mags are factored in. My exp is only prac here I've been looking for mainstream explanations but haven't found any yet. For me the mags are where the extra power is and with lenz not in the way we are free to harvest. In that scenario are we breaking any laws of physics? All the components are still there aren't they? Just configured differently.

[MileHigh]

What if we have a coil which accelerates under load (AUL) and wind a high current coil over it. 
Now we have two coils on the same core. The only difference is, one AUL and the other does not.
We connect a 1 Ohm resistor to each coil and add scope probe across each.
First we put the AUL coil under load and wait till the RPM is stable, then we also load the high current coil.
What do you think we should see on the scope? will each resistor sinewave happen at the same time or could we see a phase shift between each load resistor?

Luc:

I can't give you a definitive answer based on sketchy details.  What I can say is "AUL" is actually "AUDOL" - Acceleration Under Decreased Overall Load.   In a standard pulse motor configuration with a resistive load on the generator coil output the rotor will speed up because of reduced Lenz drag, not because of some unmeasured "delay in the onset of the Lenz drag."  There is no delay.

Supposing your generator coil has a resistance of 100 ohms.  What happens if the load resistor is 100 ohms and what does the RPM stabilise at?  How much power is being dissipated in the (generator coil plus the load resistor) when the load resistor is 100 ohms?  You can't ignore the resistance of the wire in the coil itself.

Now, what are your measurements if you change the load resistance to something less than 100 ohms?   Let's say you make the load resistor 25 ohms.  What about when the load resistor is greater than 100 ohms?  Then just repeat the process when the load resistance is 200 ohms and find out.

You are trying to understand how the pulse motor acts when the load resistor is equal to the coil resistance, less than the coil resistance, and greater than the coil resistance.  This is a fundamental investigation.  What about when you define "efficiency" as the "useful" power output into the load resistor versus the "useless" power dissipated in the coil itself.  How is this measurement for efficiency affected when you change the value of the load resistor?

In all three cases, using your two channel scope, do you detect any change in the timing of the output waveform relative to the rotor magnet fly-by?   You will not see any change in the timing of the output waveform relative to the rotor magnet fly-by confirming that there is no "delayed Lenz effect."

The key thing to understand is that the pulse motor final RPM is directly affected by the amount of power dissipated in the (coil + load resistor) system, and not just the load resistor alone.   The more power the (coil + load resistor) system is prone to dissipate, the slower the final RPM of the pulse motor will be.

Then to take it to the next step, you can investigate a generator coil with thin wire and lots of turns vs. thick wire with fewer turns.  Naturally the coil with thin wire and lots of turns will generate more EMF than the coil with thick wire and fewer turns.  Therefore for the coil with lots of turns, you can have an expectation that since the EMF output is at a higher voltage, it will operate in a very similar fashion to the coil with fewer turns as long as you increase the value of the load resistor.

If people did these kinds of investigations then when they see the rotor speed up when they change the load resistor they won't say to themselves, "wow, I have just replicated the delayed Lenz effect."   Instead they will have a much clearer understanding about what is actually taking place.  These very basic measurements can then give you more insight into what is going on and give you the knowledge and the skills to build better pulse motors in the future.

This is actually basic engineering.  Do you think that students of engineering just sit in class and listen to the teacher teach like a bunch of eggheads?  The answer is a resounding NO, you then go into a lab and you roll up your shirtsleeves and do the tests yourself and analyse the results.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

In experiments with alternating magnets passing by coils the coil responses are different from stationary magnetic polarities passing coils. This is what Jim, me and some other people are experiencing when setting up the test cases in experiments. Some people might deny that and flood another 1000 forum pages stating opposite without making experiment but that is not going to change behavior of coils in that scenario.
My concept which is laid out in my posts here have grounds on experiments and it is not a just  theory anymore...

I am assuming that you are talking about a rotor with all North magnets facing outward vs. a rotor with alternating North and South magnets facing outward?  Certainly the waveform for the generator coil outputs will be opposite for North-outward vs. South-outward facing magnets.  If the rotor magnets are spaced far enough apart so the waveforms don't overlap then you can expect the power measurements to be the same.

If you are implying that I am denying something about that I haven't because I never even mentioned the "all North" vs. "alternating North-South" issue.

MileHigh

[Jimboot]

I am assuming that you are talking about a rotor with all North magnets facing outward vs. a rotor with alternating North and South magnets facing outward?  Certainly the waveform for the generator coil outputs will be opposite for North-outward vs. South-outward facing magnets.  If the rotor magnets are spaced far enough apart so the waveforms don't overlap then you can expect the power measurements to be the same.

If you are implying that I am denying something about that I haven't because I never even mentioned the "all North" vs. "alternating North-South" issue.

MileHigh

Hi MH, in your experience where should the lenz force manifest in a n/s mag arrangement with the coil on one side of the mag and the steel rotor on the other side? Lenz field wouldn't be stronger than the mag would it? I mean the lenz field isn't going to jump over the mag and disturb the rotor. Just trying to understand things a little better - thanks

[T-1000]

MH,

http://overunity.com/15083/the-new-generator-no-effect-counter-b-emf-part-2-selfrunning/msg426103/#msg426103
Make a pendulum model, study its behavior on coil shorting then start opening circuit when iron bar is approaching coil and short it when it is under coil. After seeing what it does we can spend more time on discussion...