Vaccinations; recent developments

[MarkE]

Many people here have made some very good arguments concerning their opinions however I think it is different when it becomes personal. I know very few relatives who have died from old age and most all have died of cancer. The statistics suggest cancer, diabetes, ms etc.. will reach epidemic proportions in the near future. Why today just this afternoon I was informed that a relative passed away due to brain cancer and she will me sorely missed. To you she was just another statistic, yet another number another topic for debate but to me she was a person, a loved one.


So all this debate is wonderful until that statistic, that opinion or than logic you need to get through the day hits home where you live. At which point it's relevancy seems diminished, it's importance somehow forgotten. We can presume to understand, we may justify it by any means but that cannot change what it is, the reality of this world in which we live.


Why today I came on shift to find a weeks worth of problems I solved in a matter of hours, possibly 20 trained and qualified people came and they left scratching theirs heads and I waltzed in and did what I do. It is a peculiar thing that it is presumed we are equal and yet we are people, why I know a few people of supposedly equal expertise I would not let change the tire on my truck. So we are left with the notion that expertise must be relevant, it must be applicable and up to date. I'm just another redneck farmboy but what I do I expect to do well.


So yes believe whatever you need to get you through the day but know we are not equal, we were born equal but from that day forward what we do and think determines who we are. So yes, it was kind of a stipulation the good book(s) forgot to mention because we are not equal.


So the question remains, with whom are you willing to place your trust?. With some dip-shit who sounds intelligent, a person who believes in a bearded man in a white dress who created the universe in six days or a scientist who was proven then dis-proven by his peers but only after the fact. We live, we learn then we die... those are the facts but it is what we do in between the living and dying that matters most. So this proof and belief everyone speaks about is constrained by time because everything we know must change with time... it is a constant we we all know and believe on some level.


That's my rant
AC

Well yes it is a rant, that doesn't bother me.  Now, would you be good enough to answer my questions?  I am trying to determine whether the actions that you said you took: specifically keeping your kids from being vaccinated were based on a reasoned interpretation of facts or superstition.  If one of them has or does suffer a major cut: something that requires stitches, did you or would you refuse them a tetanus vaccination?

[sarkeizen]

however I think it is different when it becomes personal. I know very few relatives who have died from old age and most all have died of cancer. The statistics suggest cancer, diabetes, ms etc.. will reach epidemic proportions in the near future.

Why today just this afternoon I was informed that a relative passed away due to brain cancer and she will me sorely missed. To you she was just another statistic, yet another number another topic for debate but to me she was a person, a loved one.

You are all over the place here.  I'm going to try to paraphrase and find something inside that mess of barely cogent sentences.

I get that we feel bad when someone we care about dies (often people one doesn't care about affect us).  However if we are talking about anything we are talking about what is causing some alleged deaths.  You say "vaccines have killed or seriously harmed people - up to 1 in 20 in some cases".  I say you have to be deliberately trying to think poorly to believe that.

Why today I came on shift to find a weeks worth of problems I solved in a matter of hours, possibly 20 trained and qualified people came and they left scratching theirs heads and I waltzed in and did what I do. It is a peculiar thing that it is presumed we are equal and yet we are people, why I know a few people of supposedly equal expertise I would not let change the tire on my truck. So we are left with the notion that expertise must be relevant, it must be applicable and up to date. I'm just another redneck farmboy but what I do I expect to do well.

Nobody is saying that all people are equal in every respect.  Given that you accept this, why can't you accept that you are absolutely completely and utterly terrible at looking at vaccine safety objectively?  Why can't you admit that you never really did the kind of diligence that you would require of yourself in your job to reach the conclusions you did?

[sarkeizen]

Google Ultra-low level testing relating to toxins and long term exposure and it should explain everything. The scientific studies suggest there are levels well below that considered safe which do more harm over time that the levels actually considered safe.

I get that SeaMonkey's particular brain damage doesn't let him/her actually state what point s/he is trying to make with those link-only posts.  However it at least appears the point was:

i) Certain vaccines contain hCG
ii) hCG is a sterilizing agent (this is oversimplifying the biochemistry a bit)
iii) Therefore vaccines are being used to sterilize parts of Kenya.

However as the WHO reported these are the levels which are common in women humans.  Meaning if this level was sufficient to sterilize anyone then the expectation would be that most people are sterile.  Which seems at least prima facie untrue.  It's also worth mentioning that hCG isn't a sterility agent per se.  It's actually a chemical produced in the human body.  During pregnancy it's produced in large enough quantities that most pregnancy tests are actually hCG hormone tests.

So you can't really use your "trace amounts" gambit on something we bio-synthesize.  Of course if you had spent even a few seconds researching your view before launching into your "trace amounts" defense.  You would have known this.

This is what I mean about spending time to REFUTE things you already agree with.  If MarkE or myself hadn't stepped in this would have become yet another post on your facebook wall.  You would make the same arguments with people who responded like we did and some of them you would dupe.  IMHO you are responsible for the people you deceive when you are so negligent that you won't even make a 15s check.

[allcanadian]

@Mark E

Well yes it is a rant, that doesn't bother me.  Now, would you be good enough
to answer my questions?  I am trying to determine whether the actions that you
said you took: specifically keeping your kids from being vaccinated were based
on a reasoned interpretation of facts or superstition.  If one of them has or
does suffer a major cut: something that requires stitches, did you or would you
refuse them a tetanus vaccination?

Oh dear here we go, lol,  the "same logic" argument never actually did work for me. Let me guess, if I say yes I'm a hypocrite and if I say no I'm irresponsible however I'm going to choose option C which is that every vaccine has it's own risk assessment... they are not all the same. It's like flying on a jet and trying to justify the risks by thinking it is know technology and perfectly safe and it is however the actual risk is based on the competency of that technician who replaced those rivets in the wing section last week, the fight he had with his wife the night prior and how much he drank after that which effected his performance. In which case the "same logic" same airplane, same physics, same statistics model simply does not apply because it did not include that drunk technician who just inadvertently killed everyone. You see the risks are conditional and change the moment you enter the cause and effect loop unless you opt out or change the conditions.
All of my family has had a tetanus shot however I would think you would agree the risk of stepping on a rusty nail is just a little bit different than contracting polio which WHO has stated no longer exists on this planet. The risks concerning every vaccine, every drug should be weighed carefully because obviously they are not all the same.
AC

[allcanadian]

@Sark

This is what I mean about spending time to REFUTE things you already agree
with.  If MarkE or myself hadn't stepped in this would have become yet another
post on your facebook wall.  You would make the same arguments with people who
responded like we did and some of them you would dupe.  IMHO you are responsible
for the people you deceive when you are so negligent that you won't even make a
15s check.

Oh I would agree, you guys are like the white supremicists of logic who live in a world of black and white with no shades of gray. I mean you should get some of those white dresses with the pointy hats and big red letters spelling "logicle" on the front.
However life is chaotic and has a way of coming full circle and biting us in the ass when we least expect it, when it does then we will talk. Maybe you could track down those who's children have been crippled or died due to complications, I'm sure they would love to hear your opinions and you could straighten them out and tell them how it is.

AC