Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[Farmhand]

Tinman, if you began building a Bi-Toroid please continue, It would be interesting to see the results regardless of the outcome. At least we know with you we'll get exactly what we see and you'll say what you think.

..

[Red_Sunset]

1. Energy is conserved.  Induction that involves mechanical motion transfers energy between mechanical and electromagnetic domains.  Induction that involves only changing magnetic fields, IE transformers transforms electrical power from one impedance to another.  Neither conversion process reduces the potential energy of some substance into energy while converting said substance into another substance with lower potential energy.  Ergo the energy out of any induction driven device is limited to the energy in less losses.

You are saying,  "identify the energy source",  in Heins idea, he attempts to break the feedback loop (Mutual inductance), with the purpose not to register the consumption of the load.  He is effective trying to trick nature to deliver without input from the greater universe.
You make a valid point that must remain "standing",  but not prevent further exploration

2. Thane Heins device is visibly a transformer that has lots and lots of leakage inductance.  That is what is responsible for the nearly 90 degree phase shift of his device.  Phase shifts of nearly 90 degrees mean that there is a very large ratio of reactive to real power, which makes accurate measure of real power and real power efficiency much more difficult than at low phase angles.  Any distortion from a pure sine wave, skew between the voltage and current channels, basic gain, or offset errors in the measurements can throw efficiency measurements way off.See 1.

If the secondary is not able feedback to the primary, the phase shift will remains 90dgr since only magnetizing current is dominant in the primary core.   But that does not directly address the deficiency in the idea. 
As example, allow me to briefly expand on the core problem in Heins idea, and where the focus should go in order to resolve the idea.  The problem  is that the self induction of the secondary will kill the transformer output. This self induction (generated flux field by the secondary) will increase as you increase the permeability of the flux diversion core, this increased permeability also reduces the feedback towards the primary which is now unable to compensate.  The result is a rapid reduction in secondary output.

When it comes to induction machines and the idea of free energy there are two possible routes:
1) Establish that CoE does not always apply, and that some induction machine can violate CoE through reliable measurement.  (Theory is no good because theory says CoE is immutable.) OR
2) Establish that some induction machine consumes an identified fuel source and spent fuel ash, the potential energy difference of which can be shown output from the induction machine.
Either option is a daunting task that has never been successfully executed.

You are correct, it is a daunting task and for good reason (the theory became law and stood the test of time for good reason)
But that doesn't take away the need to dig deeper so the focus can be more precise to resolve problems.
To further this forum debate, can you demonstrate exactly how the load slows down the toriod motor or generator

Red_Sunset

[ramset]

Chris
You posted a circuit here in the beginning of this thread with OU claims.
it was replicated By Tinsel Koala ,if you have a problem with his replication not being accurate please explain where he went wrong??

I can appreciate your frustration with people who just like to post endless clinical posts and never do more than critique ,however Tinsel stands head and shoulders above this group, He goes WAY out of his way to properly investigate and replicate to standards which very few at this forum are even capable of...

PLEASE where did his replication of your circuit go wrong ??

Chetkremens@Gmail.com

[MarkE]

You are saying,  "identify the energy source",  in Heins idea, he attempts to break the feedback loop (Mutual inductance), with the purpose not to register the consumption of the load.  He is effective trying to trick nature to deliver without input from the greater universe.
You make a valid point that must remain "standing",  but not prevent further exploration

Once the parrot is shown to be nailed to its perch, it is all over.

If the secondary is not able feedback to the primary, the phase shift will remains 90dgr since only magnetizing current is dominant in the primary core.   But that does not directly address the deficiency in the idea. 

It explains the fundamental deficiency in the alleged evidence presented.  It's GIGO.  An idea either has a basis that is compatible with existing theory, or experiment has to show something that is incompatible with existing theory.  Thane Heins does neither.

As example, allow me to briefly expand on the core problem in Heins idea, and where the focus should go in order to resolve the idea.  The problem  is that the self induction of the secondary will kill the transformer output. This self induction (generated flux field by the secondary) will increase as you increase the permeability of the flux diversion core, this increased permeability also reduces the feedback towards the primary which is now unable to compensate.  The result is a rapid reduction in secondary output.

The evidence in Thane Heins experiments is clearly visible on his oscilloscope:  He has lots and lots of leakage inductance on top of a distorted waveform.  We can reproduce the experiment results with a simple inductor.  And we can further with careful measurement show that the OU claims are measurement error on his part that stem primarily from trying to measure a small real power buried under a large reactive power.

You are correct, it is a daunting task and for good reason (the theory became law and stood the test of time for good reason)
But that doesn't take away the need to dig deeper so the focus can be more precise to resolve problems.

You see this I don't understand at all.  Once it is established that:
1) There is no basis in theory, and 2) No experimental evidence supporting an extraordinary idea, then we are done.  There is no place left to dig.

To further this forum debate, can you demonstrate exactly how the load slows down the toriod motor or generator

Red_Sunset

What debate?  Where is there any credible evidence in favor of the claim?

[minnie]

  I get confused with these things. Thane Heins wants a PF. close to zero
and we spend 1,000's dollars investing in switched capacitor equipment
to get the PF. of our welding shop to as close to one as possible.
            John.