Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[poynt99]

You can test/measure the E field easily with your scope probe.

Energize a toroid coil. Wrap the ground lead of the probe once through/around the coil and clip the ground lead to the probe tip.

Use an AC or pulsed DC input to the coil. Observe the voltage wave form on your scope. That is the induced emf and hence the line integral of E of the path your ground lead takes around the coil. Now add 5 feet of wire to your ground lead, and try the experiment again. Try different positions and lengths of wire. Is the induced emf always the same? When is it less?

[Farmhand]

No.
Electron current is present in the conductors and ends at the capacitor plates. When the plates are polarized, there is an excess (buildup) of electrons on one side, and a shortage (void) of electrons at the other side.

I think it pays to remember that "electron" movement in a conductor is not the entire story about "electrical current".

When an electrical current flows along a conductor the "electrons" themselves move very slowly, while the electrical current moves very fast.

There is no electron flow through a capacitor, but there is a flow of electricity or a flow of electrical charge.

Think of two capacitors in series in an AC circuit and the way the electrons flow between the center most plates of the two capacitors.

Resonant wireless transfer of energy requires no flow of electrons from supply to load to transfer the energy "electrically", via a flow of electrical energy, a flow has a current.

.

[Magluvin]

That is correct.
They would be miniscule, perhaps not present at all.
Two air-core coils sitting side-by-side will still have miniscule induction from one to the other.
The two coils in line improves the coupling a bit, especially if they are end to end. As you separate them however, the coupling would decrease quickly.
That is quite an extreme example of course. I believe that as long as the secondary diameter is at max up to that of the primary (or perhaps double), the induced emf will be the same as if the diameter was much smaller. As you increase the diameter of the secondary relative to that of the primary, the induced emf will decrease (eventually).

In theory, the E field extends out an infinite distance, but its intensity decreases with distance from the center. However, as your "collector" would also be larger, in theory the induced emf should be equal. Remember the induced emf is equal to the line integral of the circumferential E field. So even though the E field intensity decreases with distance, the circumference also increases, so the line integral is the same.

I have not tried a 5 foot secondary with a 6" primary. It would be an interesting experiment.

"That is correct."

Ok.  And I mean "ok" in the friendliest way, but the ok means that I understand where you are coming from, not that I necessarily agree. Yet. 


"They would be miniscule, perhaps not present at all."

But we do agree that it is possible for the primary to induce that secondary at a distance, say 2in center to center, which ever you might agree with in perspective to the depictions dimensions.  Now with no core, what is the influence on the secondary from the primary, E field or mag field?



"Two air-core coils sitting side-by-side will still have miniscule induction from one to the other."

Still miniscule as in 'the same' as if it were 2in away, or more induction yet still not much compared to inline air coils or a closed core transformer?



"The two coils in line improves the coupling a bit, especially if they are end to end. As you separate them however, the coupling would decrease quickly."

Ok



"That is quite an extreme example of course. I believe that as long as the secondary diameter is at max up to that of the primary (or perhaps double), the induced emf will be the same as if the diameter was much smaller. As you increase the diameter of the secondary relative to that of the primary, the induced emf will decrease (eventually)."


I said 5ft to, yes, be a bit extreme just to throw out an example that is not like 1/4in larger than the core.  Something to try and restrict a large part of the coil from influence of forces to try and isolate what parts of the coils are affected, whether they are outside of the core or through the hole.  So with the large coil as a receiving coil, it would have been induced just as a
well as a tight against the core coil, other than the added resistance of the extra wire, and added self inductance?



"In theory, the E field extends out an infinite distance, but its intensity decreases with distance from the center. However, as your "collector" would also be larger, in theory the induced emf should be equal. Remember the induced emf is equal to the line integral of the circumferential E field. So even though the E field intensity decreases with distance, the circumference also increases, so the line integral is the same."

I dont have a hard time believing that. Similar to the mag field with distance.


"I have not tried a 5 foot secondary with a 6" primary. It would be an interesting experiment."

Like I said, the 5ft was just a lets be absolutely clear extreme.

Mags

[MagnaProp]

Thanks gyulasun and EMJunkie. I'd like to get better at reading schematics so it's good for me to see those. The primary and secondary current going the same direction is interesting. I'll have to think about that some more.

[Magluvin]

I think it pays to remember that "electron" movement in a conductor is not the entire story about "electrical current".

When an electrical current flows along a conductor the "electrons" themselves move very slowly, while the electrical current moves very fast.

There is no electron flow through a capacitor, but there is a flow of electricity or a flow of electrical charge.

Think of two capacitors in series in an AC circuit and the way the electrons flow between the center most plates of the two capacitors.

Resonant wireless transfer of energy requires no flow of electrons from supply to load to transfer the energy "electrically", via a flow of electrical energy, a flow has a current.

.

"When an electrical current flows along a conductor the "electrons" themselves move very slowly, while the electrical current moves very fast."

The way I see it, it is not the current that is fast but the wave of the current is felt at the other end of the circuit very fast.. almost as if it were a solid or incompressible fluid, yet is is compressible.

Mags