Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[poynt99]

Do we have a sensor that can detect only an E field as well,so as we can see if it is only an E field that surrounds the core. What about a low voltage neon?,as it is suppose to be the E field that lights them up when placed next to a slayer tower-or the like's of.

There are E field detectors, and I think I have something I can post later. However, yours and Mags' contention is that the B field breaks external to the core to induce an emf in the secondary. If you prove to yourself that there is no B field external to the core, you could surmise that the E field does in fact perform the inducing of emf.

If not, why?

[tinman]

There are E field detectors, and I think I have something I can post later. However, yours and Mags' contention is that the B field breaks external to the core to induce an emf in the secondary. If you prove to yourself that there is no B field external to the core, you could surmise that the E field does in fact perform the inducing of emf.

If not, why?

Because as i have said before,any E field that is moving with time has an associated magnetic field,and that field is in phase with but at an angle 90* of the E field. So while the E field circles around the wire,the magnetic field cuts through the wire.

There simply cannot be an E field that changes with time without a magnetic field-be it a near or far field.

I am beginning to think that the E field is responsible for the voltage potential,and the magnetic field is responsible for the current flow available through/from that coil.

Edit:
The other thing i found is that by raising or lowering the frequency,i can shift the phase between the two secondary coils by more than 180*. In fact,if i go high enough on the frequency,i can get the phase shift to do a full 360*

[partzman]

Brad,

Great experiment, but I don't think you've proven the E field isn't responsible for inducing the emf.

Unfortunately it seems you did not carefully read everything I've been saying. I know there has been a lot to absorb, but you have missed one very important fact that I talked about in detail.

In summary, yes the E field varies in strength as one moves from the center to outside the coil, but the total loop integral of that E field at any radius from the center will always produce the same total, and hence the same induced emf (assuming the same number of turns in the coil at any one radius).

So the plot of the strength of the E field is obtained by taking a measurement at a single point in space at a particular radius from the center. The loop integral is essentially exactly what it says, you move around that radius and accumulate all the E field points in that path. So the E field is essentially one single point measurement multiplied by 2PIr. Therefore, at any value r, the loop integral is the same; as you go outward for example, the single point measurement decreases, but 2PIr is greater and therefore the result is equal to one with a lesser value r.

IMO this really gets confusing! Let's consider the E field surrounding a toroid core as you depict.  Assuming for a moment that the E field has equal valued point measurements along the loop integral for any given r, what happens in the center of the core where the field tends to reinforce itself? What happens just above and below the center of the core where the E field tends to oppose itself? Does this not result in a stronger E field in the center of the core and a weaker E field on the outer portion of the core? Maybe I'm missing something here.

I have not seen much discussion lately on this thread about power flow in transformers and isn't this what we are really concerned with? I have attached a paper by Edwards and Saha titled "Establishment of Flux in Magnetic Cores".  Please note section 4 which details an experimental setup supporting their theory.  Should be simple enough to replicate.  It seems the so called "leakage inductance" is important in the establishment of core flux in conjunction with the H field.

I also agree that tinman's experiment is revealing and should be rigorously analyzed.

partzman

[poynt99]

I don't understand why you guys just don't do the most simple experiment possible, i.e. wind a coil on a standard high permeability toroid core, energize it with a DC current, and use a Hall meter to snoop around the coil to see if and how much B field can be detected? Then you will now without a doubt if the B field is contained within the core, or not.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but really, perform the experiment. The original contention was and is that the B field IS NOT confined within the core. I would strongly suggest you start with that.

[partzman]

FWIW, I've attached a document of a particular experimental setup I did a while ago which was exploring the H field in the center of a toroidal transformer setup.  The unusual thing about this setup is that the object of the H field flow is an un-gapped pot core coil that is resonated with a .047ufd cap. This assembly was placed in the core center on axis with the H field. The pot core coil is driven into saturation by the H field from the toroid core and the particular ferrite used saturates at ~.5T so the H field contains energy.

The text pretty much explains the operation and measurements and there is no OU here but efficiency is ~93%.  Several things are interesting to note from this in the fact that the H field exists outside a magnetic core under normal transformer operation plus it also exists outside the toroidal core and follows a linear law of density/distance.

partzman