Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

MH,


partzman

There are some very respected researchers who do not agree with your above statement regarding instantaneous flux flow.

Some just overlook what is there right in front of them. They use all these fancy word's to make them look like they know whats going on,but those fancy word's are just mumbo jumbo for more simple terms.

But here are some fact's-->and remember,we are doing open voltage tests here-->no loads on the output coils.

In order to raise the voltage across the coils/inductors without increasing the turn ratio,we must increase the rate of change of the flux flowing through the core of that inductor,or increase the magnetic field strength. We already know that the magnetic field/flux will be of the highest density at the center of the core(where the inner secondary is)

Second-the only way to get a phase shift between the outer primary and inner secondary when doing open voltage tests,is to have a lagging magnetic filed/flux passing through that inner secondary. This clearly shows that both the magnetic field and flux do NOT propagate throughout the core simultaneously(reluctance). If they did,then there would be no phase shift. If it all happened simultaneously,then we would have no use for the reluctance value,which is basically the rate at which the magnetic domains can switch/align. When we start to exceed that reluctance value,then we start to get a phase lag,and until all the magnetic domains have switch/aligned to there full value to that of the supplied field strength,then the flux is still building until the magnetic domains have completely switched/aligned. This can and dose happen below(well below) the speed of light in some cases.

[Smudge]

Having trawled through most of Brad's experiments I am of the opinion that the inner secondary has a self resonance at around 350KHz.  It seems clear to me that the inner coil being surrounded by conductive particles within an insulating binder will have a high value of self capacitance, so some self resonance is to be expected.  The effect of shunt capacitance across a coil is to reflect into the magnetic circuit some negative reluctance.  The value of that negative reluctance is given by (w^2)*(N^2)*C where N is the number of turns and w is the angular frequency (omega).  So the reluctance of the inner core is reduced by that value, hence this explains why it draws more flux.  Also the w^2 frequency dependence of that reduced reluctance explains why Brad gets different results at different frequencies.  At resonance the negative value equates to the positive value hence the reluctance becomes zero, so the inner core steals all the flux, and this happens in Brad's experiments.

Experiments using different capacitor values across that inner coil should validate this simple explanation.  Also one could do experiments using two standard toroidal cores stacked one on top of the other, having a secondary wound on one core and a primary wound over both cores.  Applying capacitors to the secondary should replicate Brad's work and prove this simple explanation.

Smudge

P.S.  I have long held the view that being able to effectively reduce the reluctance of a core by adding capacitance to a coil is something that could be exploited in OU work.

P.P.S.  See my old paper "Analyzing Transformers in the Magnetic Domain"

[picowatt]

I believe there is one here that is milling the molds ATM.

Here is some information from test i carried out today,along with those recommended by PW.

I set the scope to EXT trigger,leading edge,and triggering at the 0 volt line.The trigger source was the primary coil.
With 1 leg from all three windings used as a common.
My sweep range was from 1KHz to 500KHz over 60 seconds.
These are open secondary test.

I first ran a sweep with channel A on the primary,and channel B on the outer secondary-No phase change or voltage difference noted throughout the sweep.

You will need increase your upper sweep frequency.  Do so until you see the response roll off.

2-channel A still on the primary,and channel B now on the inner secondary.-From around 300KHz,a phase shift started to take place,where the inner secondary started to lag,but began to increase in voltage magnitude. Peak secondary voltage was reached around 360KHz on the secondary,and was around 13.6VRMS,while the primary  remained at around 1.6VRMS. At around 420KHz,the secondaries phase was in phase with the primary-so we had a 180* phase shift on the secondary.

Does this mean that at frequencies well below 300KHz the primary, outer sec. and inner sec. are all in phase?

What do the secondary amplitudes and phases look at 1KHz?

3-The same results were had between the outer and inner secondary,only they started of in phase,and the inner secondary shifted out of phase to that of the outer secondary at the 420KHz mark. The VRMS results were same as test 2.

Again, are you stating that the primary and both secondaries are all in phase at lower frequencies?

4- i then switched to the inner secondary to be used as the primary. As the two outer windings are now secondaries,and are exactly the same,only one test was needed to obtain the results for the two outer secondaries. So now with my SG  hooked to the inner winding,it is now our primary.The EXT trigger was omitted,and i triggered from channel 1-leading edge,0 volt line. Channel two was placed across one of the outer windings. As we seen a 180* phase shift between the outer primary and inner secondary during the sweep,i was expecting to see the same with the reverse situation. But that was not the case-->there was no phase shift at all throughout the sweep
So we get a 180* phase shift with outer primary and inner secondary,but get no phase shift between an inner primary and outer secondary. No equal and opposite reaction?

You lost me here.  You are using sine waves for these tests, correct?  How and why does your SG suddenly fit in?  If you already did a bunch of tests driving the primary with your FG and now want to try driving a different coil (inner) to act as the primary and compare to those previous FG driven tests, why would you add all the other variables the SG brings to the plate?  Surely using the FG and doing so at the same test frequencies makes more sense. 

Extras
1-with a voltage of 1.64VRMS across the outer primary,we get 3.28VRMS on the inner secondary.

At what frequencies or over what bandwidth of frequencies?  What is the amplitude of the inner at 1KHz?

2-When using the inner coil as the  primary,with 3.28VRMS across it,we get 1.64VRMS across each !now! outer secondaries. BUT,in both cases,it is frequency dependant.

At what frequency was the above measurement made?  Again, what are the amplitudes at 1KHz?

The amplitude difference can be raised or lowered by raising or lowering the frequency-->this only applies between the inner and outer coils. The two outer coils-one as the primary,and one as the secondary always remain 180* out of phase,and always have the same amplitude.

This is why a video of a sweep would be nice to watch.  The use of the scope's external trigger was supposed to make this easier.  First, you will have to determine what your max frequency should be based on where the outer secondary response peaks and/or rolls off.  You will likely need to go to 850KHz or more.

When using the external trigger on the primary, just do a check sweep to be sure the primary drive waveform stays phase aligned with your scope's trigger time marker.  Once you are certain the external trigger marker does not drift over your sweep bandwidth (e.g., 1KHz to 1MHz), you will no longer have to watch the primary with a scope channel because the scope's trigger time marker tells us all we want to know about the primary drive phase.  This frees up both scope channels so that you can use them to watch the two secondaries (while still monitoring the primary phase with the trigger marker).

ADDED:  If you are unsure of what I am saying with regard to the external trigger, please ask.  Also, relatively slow "automated" sweeps are fine for quick looks, but you will want to "manually" sweep around the various peaks you encounter.

PW

[Smudge]

Here are the magnetic circuits that apply to Tinman's transformer.  I have used a modified symbol to represent the D impedance.  In electric circuits we don't have an impedance proportional to the second differential of current, hence such a symbol doesn't exist.  It is of interest that such an electrical impedance could be created artificially using an op amp with appropriate feedback, that would be an interesting project for a student to do.

Note that the induced negative reluctance due to the capacitance of the inner secondary can create a mmf of polarity that actually drives AC flux through the outer in the opposite direction (arrow not shown in that direction in these images), hence getting the results seen by Tinman where total flux is less than inner flux.

Smudge

[tinman]

ADDED:   Also, relatively slow "automated" sweeps are fine for quick looks, but you will want to "manually" sweep around the various peaks you encounter.

PW

Does this mean that at frequencies well below 300KHz the primary, outer sec. and inner sec. are all in phase?

,no,where did you come up with that?. The two secondaries are 180* out of phase to that of the primary-as stated in my reply. The outer secondary always remains 180* out of phase to the outer primary. The inner secondaries phase shifts 180* to match the primaries at the higher end of the sweep.

What do the secondary amplitudes and phases look at 1KHz?

2:1 voltage ration(inner higher voltage amplitude),and in phase.

You lost me here.  You are using sine waves for these tests, correct?  How and why does your SG suddenly fit in?  If you already did a bunch of tests driving the primary with your FG and now want to try driving a different coil (inner) to act as the primary and compare to those previous FG driven tests, why would you add all the other variables the SG brings to the plate?  Surely using the FG and doing so at the same test frequencies makes more sense.

OK,think there is a mix up here. I use my SG for all the test,and i use the term SG(signal generator),where as you are using the term FG(function generator)-->one in the same to me.

This is why a video of a sweep would be nice to watch.

I can do that tonight after work.

The use of the scope's external trigger was supposed to make this easier.  First, you will have to determine what your max frequency should be based on where the outer secondary response peaks and/or rolls off.  You will likely need to go to 850KHz or more.

Yes,it did.
You recommended a sweep up to 400KHz,and i went to 500KHz-->now i need to go to 800KHz+?
I went all the way to 2.3 MHz,which is where the inner secondary amplitude go's down to the mV range

When using the external trigger on the primary, just do a check sweep to be sure the primary drive waveform stays phase aligned with your scope's trigger time marker.  Once you are certain the external trigger marker does not drift over your sweep bandwidth (e.g., 1KHz to 1MHz), you will no longer have to watch the primary with a scope channel because the scope's trigger time marker tells us all we want to know about the primary drive phase.  This frees up both scope channels so that you can use them to watch the two secondaries (while still monitoring the primary phase with the trigger marker).

Which i did until i wanted to watch the amplitude's of both the primary and outer secondary.

If you are unsure of what I am saying with regard to the external trigger, please ask.

Scope 101 basics passed some time back.