Permanent magnet motor

[Jim36]

Hi artv,

The picture shows the red lines produced by the magnetic field passing the current carrying conductor (gold rectangle), the current is the blue arrows within the gold rectangle, the green circles with 'cross' and 'dot' represent the conductor moving into the picture on the left and out of the picture on the right providing rotation.

Hi Ayeaye,

I don't think you have the right type of cylinder/tube magnets to do any testing with, these can't be bought (as far as I know) as I have struggled to find one manufacturer that will attempt to make them.

You're right, magnets are a weird thing! I don't think that conventional magnetic theory truly understands the nature of magnetism. I'm quite interested in the Ether / vortex theories as to gain a better understanding.

The homopolar motor principle is 'relatively' simple when explained with conventional magnetic theory. I'll show you what I understand. Take the concept of the circular magnetic field around a wire and how it interacts when inside another permanent magnetic field (1st picture), then take a look at the homopolar motor from a birds eye view (2nd picture) which I've drawn to help clarify. I don't think it's too complex for your mind, these things just require studying and finding the correct information!

[Jim36]

Hi Webby1,

Yes, that is the correct concept in respect to producing a permanent circular magnetic field, only with 2 halves this may have some flux leakage which may or may not be a problem. Horse shoe magnets are too large for the job and are not usually circular, though if some small ones could be found (10-20mm dia) these could be used stacked up to produce a cylinder as a trail. Do you know of anything like this on the market? Is there any magnets like this used in technology at present that could be salvaged?

Jim

[ayeaye]

Jim36,

Ok, i got it. I understood it from your pdf, top view. So it appeared that this is the same i have always talked about, moving by the field lines, just in a slightly different configuration. The asymmetry in your case is that circular field, this is asymmetric in relation to the magnetic field of the pole. Stupid me, i didn't recognize it at once.

Anyway, the design you proposed will not work. Why, because what matters is that one half of the circular field is closer to the pole, then the field lines of the pole move by the field lines of that circular field, N to S. It is not just about a right or left hand rule or anything. That is, one may call it that rule, and it is also true in that case, but the reason why the wire rotates is not because of that rule, it can only be used to illustrate what happens.

So as much as i understand, the big cylinder magnet on the drawing below,  should rotate. The small stator magnet is fixed in place. I hope that you understand my drawing, as i cannot draw very well. I cannot make it, because i have no strong enough bearings, which hold the magnet in place. My processor fan is not good enough for that. I tried though with magnets, the rotating force seems to be there, and seems to be quite strong. Whether strong enough for continuous rotation, again i cannot say. Maybe with good bearings and light magnet it may work.

Why should it work, to explain to the others. Take a single field line out of the north pole of the big magnet. This is radial. It moves N to S, by the field lines of the small (stator) magnet.

Btw, i kind of remember, someone showed me a toroid magnet rotating, holding another magnet near it, when i was a kid. I didn't understand why it rotated, and i'm also not sure whether it really happened, or was it a dream. Most toroid magnets are like cylinder magnets, also poles at flat sides, only a hole at the center.

The problem with bearings with such thing, is that the magnet attracts the bearings, so that they may not work well. I don't know how to solve this, with bearings made of non-magnetic material, or something different.

[Jim36]

Hi Webby,

I found a company in the states that can make it as one hole magnet! Though the material is FeCrCo not neodymium as I would of liked, I need to check the properties of this material.
What is a PMH? I've thought about making my own but I would have to find the blank magnetic material to do so.

Hi Ayeaye,

You might be correct, my design might not work and I may have to resort back to a 'standard' homopolar design, who knows I will play? The conventional interaction of magnetic fields may be incorrect for homopolar motor?

I understand your design and it could work too, I see what you mean by using a large cylinder / tube magnet so to keep only one half of the magnet in the stator field. Thanks for the additional idea as I had not thought of that one. I don't think there is a problem with bearings as these type of magnets do not have a field external to the material so the bearings are not attracted.

You may off seen something like that when you were a kid or it could have been a dream? When I spoke to my father about what I'm doing, he claims to have seen something similar years ago (when working as telecoms engineer at a property in the sticks) the guy showed him and said it has been spinning for a few years? These glimpses may give us the 'energy' to keep pursuing the goal! 

Jim

[ayeaye]

I tried it a bit with magnets and my disc, it didn't seem to work. This is not the best device to experiment though, as i cannot hold things in place. If you can make the magnetic field of the stator magnet on my drawing, perfectly circular, then it has the best chance to work, as circular is perfectly asymmetric. It is like a magnet where you can imagine the pole to be anywhere on that circle, and everywhere the field lines are only on one side of that pole. But i doubt that it is possible to achieve so circular field with permanent magnets.

How should this design be named? This could be named a homopolar  magnet motor, but then it would mistakenly thought to be a homopolar motor, as this has a magnet as well. So maybe it's better to name it a one pole magnet motor, to distinguish the two.

I have only used magnets to show overunity, for which they are good. But i have thought that magnets and electromagnets cannot be used for generating any continuous energy. For that i thought the solid state experiments using a coil, such as my "negative discharge effect" experiment, are the way to go, and worth the effort.

I noticed also when hanging a small magnet from a thread, then it started to circle the pole of the big magnet quite intensively. But then i couldn't get any good results when fixing the thread somewhere. It was very difficult to hold the magnet in any one position, when hanging it from a thread. Nice toy though.

But if the one pole magnet motor or such is what you want to try, then good luck. I think then at first you should make a test device, which enables to put the small magnet to different positions.