Homopolar Generator Revisit.

[MagnaProp]

So, has someone tried to rotate the brush at the edge of the disc, instead of rotating the disc?...

At 2:04 he rotates only both brushes and gets a voltage.

He doesn't rotate the outer one and leave the inner one stationary if that's what you meant. He also doesn't rotate the brushes and the disk together.

Interesting that the same direction of rotation gives different voltage polarity from the stator or rotor. If the stator was free to spin, would you get free extra rotation in the opposite direction from the stator while the disk/rotor is spinning?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduYoT9sMaE

[tinman]

Hey guys, just had a couple of postulations about this.

Everyone brings up good questions and points, and this is definitely a paradoxical machine. I think one of the big questions it brings up is, does the magnetic field rotate with the magnet, or is it stationary even when the magnet is rotating?



To prove this, we can:

The question here, though, is why are the brushes required, or can attached wires produce current. I also say, no attached wires cannot produce current, yes stationary brushes are required. But I'll also suggest a test with brushes that should not produce current.



The first image demonstrates a current carrying wire in a uniform magnetic field. Two important principles to understand here is that,



Now the complex part of the HPG. Because it is a single conductor, a disc, current cannot flow without brushes. This is because there is no individual point for the current to traverse. As the entire disc produces current radially, the produced magnetic fields (in the disc), cancel each other out and prevent current movement.

The final image is the test I propose.
A dome shaped conductor with it's edge in a trough of mercury. It's exactly the same as a disc with brushes except for one difference, the entire edge of the disc is touching the brush simultaneously. I speculate that this design cannot generate current or motor for the same reason as above. The generated current cannot produce a non-uniform magnetic field, and therefore cannot have current flow.

We all know that a magnetic field is made up of lines of magnetic force, so they should rotate with the magnet because they emanate from the magnetic domains.

No-there are no magnetic lines of force-->the field is uniform like the vacuum of space.

1. rotate the magnet but leave the disc stationary. Of course, the brushes would also have to move with the magnet.

If the brushes move regardless of what the magnet is doing,and EMF will be produced across the center and outer brush.

2. spin the disc and the magnet in opposite directions. If the voltage increases, this proves that the magnetic field spins with the magnet.

Spinning the magnet will make no change to the EMF across the disc.

We know that when the disc is moving relative to stationary brushes, current is developed. This is due to the fact that the disc is behaving as a single conductor, or wire, between the brushes. An analogy would be wires emanating from the axis, like a bicycle wheel with spokes. Because a wire moving in a magnetic field creates current, so does the disc (between the brushes).

An EMF is produced across a conductor when the magnetic field varies with time. The magnetic field in a HPG dose not vary with time.

1. the section of the disc between brushes produces a magnetic field similar to a single conductor.

I have heard this many times before,but ask yourself this. How was a current flow produced in the first place that creates this magnetic field between the brushes.

2. Lenz law is in effect when the disc is generating.

First, about Lenz law, whenever a current is induced, the magnetic field created by the current will always be in opposition to the inducing magnetic field. Therefore, when the disc is generating, back-torque is produced in the disc, whether the magnet is moving or not. Simply, the current is trying to motor in the opposite direction that you are spinning it, and it has no effect on the brushes because it happens in the disc.

This is not true,as the brushes are the only reference frame that is different from the rest of the HPG,and so the backtorque must come from the brushes being fixed-right  . Well this is what most will have you believe,but i do not think this is the case. Has anyone actually measured any force on the brushes when a HPG is loaded-a current drawn from the rotating disc?

[tinman]

Poynt & Vortex

Below is a quick!paint! drawing of a HPG design. In this design i have series connected two HPG's via way of a stainless steel drum,to carry the current from one to the other HPG. I have maintained the fixed brushes to give us our stationary point of reference-in case the magnetic field cannot be seen as that stationary point of reference. Tesla had a similar design where he used a conducting belt to series connect the two HPG's,but i believe the flaw in that design is the fact that the belt it self has a different point of reference to that of the disc's,and would cause the back torque. In my design bellow,the conducting drum has the same point of reference as the two copper disc's and magnets-all rotate together. The two brushes are placed so as they make contact with the center of each half shaft. The brushes maintain the different point of reference to that of the rotating mass,and thus the system should still produce a current flow-->but where would back torque be produced ?.

This design should also double the available voltage.

[Liberty]

No-there are no magnetic lines of force-->the field is uniform like the vacuum of space.

If the brushes move regardless of what the magnet is doing,and EMF will be produced across the center and outer brush.

Spinning the magnet will make no change to the EMF across the disc.

An EMF is produced across a conductor when the magnetic field varies with time. The magnetic field in a HPG dose not vary with time.

I have heard this many times before,but ask yourself this. How was a current flow produced in the first place that creates this magnetic field between the brushes.

This is not true,as the brushes are the only reference frame that is different from the rest of the HPG,and so the backtorque must come from the brushes being fixed-right  . Well this is what most will have you believe,but i do not think this is the case. Has anyone actually measured any force on the brushes when a HPG is loaded-a current drawn from the rotating disc?

My theory is that the brushes create a circuit or a "virtual wire" across the magnetic generating surface.  Therefore as long as there is velocity/movement between the generating surface and the virtual wire across the surface, the wire in effect, passes through the magnetic field, and a voltage/current is realized across the virtual wire circuit created by the brushes.  The back torque is between the "virtual wire" and the surface conductor. (with it's counter magnetic field formed when current flows to the load)  (formed by the two contact brushes).  The current flow across the magnetic surface will always take the path of least resistance between the brushes.

The "virtual wire" when in motion, creates a difference in charge across the wire, because the magnetic field is changing across the virtual wire at a different rate from the inside to the outside of the generating surface.  The inside will always pass through less magnetic field as compared to the outside of the virtual wire.  So a constant difference in charge occurs across the virtual wire while in motion.  Current only flows and back torque occurs when a load is applied to the brushes to complete a circuit.  The magnetic field from the virtual wire is a circular field, and repels the conductor surface magnetic field like an eddy current type of magnetic drag.  Similar to dropping a cylindrical magnet down a copper pipe.

Just wanted to pass on a different theory/perspective.  I'll jump out and wish you all a good day/evening.

Liberty.

[antijon]

@MagnaProp
Good points, however, wouldn't it be plausible to assume that the magnetic lines themselves are spinning, causing the entire magnetic field spin? I mean, the spin of many small things induces the spin of the whole. Just like if we put 5 tornadoes in a circle, all spinning the same way, the entire air mass would also spin in that direction. This view allows the effects you describe and also shows that magnetic lines do emit from magnetic domains.

No-there are no magnetic lines of force-->the field is uniform like the vacuum of space.

Tinman, I'll have to reference Eric Dollard here, who says that there are magnetic lines. I believe that the lines follow the aether like strings. Magnetic lines extend, can be compressed or expanded, connected or snapped apart. He describes moving a magnet over a coil connected to headphones. He says it makes a crackling sound, due to the field lines snapping together or breaking as they pass the inductor. I haven't tried this, but I expect it to be true... it is Eric Dollard after all.

Spinning the magnet will make no change to the EMF across the disc.

Let me rephrase that. If the disc is spinning, and producing a voltage. Say 1 volt. While the disc is spinning, spin the magnet in the opposite direction. If the voltage increases that proves that the field spins with the magnet.

I have heard this many times before,but ask yourself this. How was a current flow produced in the first place that creates this magnetic field between the brushes.

In normal operation ( disc spinning) known laws of induction can be applied. Conductor moving in magnetic field. But this doesn't apply when only the brushes move and current is generated. For that I can only say that the magnet induces an electrical stress on the disc.

This is not true,as the brushes are the only reference frame that is different from the rest of the HPG,and so the backtorque must come from the brushes being fixed-right

This is a video link from Jorge Guala-Valverde... http://www.andrijar.com/homavi/motor.avi
He shows that a current carrying wire produces a torque in space. The torque also drags the magnet. Because the force is so small it's hard to say that it's not acting against the brushes, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the last experiment. It appears to react against the surrounding space, or the magnetic field in that space.

In generator mode, I'm inclined to believe that backtorque would develop on the shaft, but if that isn't the case, Lenz law would still manifest and show itself, possibly by low efficiency at high power outputs.