JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?

[Jimboot]

btw thanks for chiming in here Lidmotor, I really enjoy your builds.

[minoly]

That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

Why did you mute me on youtube?

[MileHigh]

I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a given RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

[minoly]

That is correct Lidmotor,John dose indeed say and show that the coil should be energized when the magnet is in the middle of the coil--this is where the term zero force came from,as he thinks there is zero magnetic field at the center of the coil. The fact is,the field(both magnetic and electric) is strongest at the center of the coil.

Anyway,im with you on this one-->enough time spent on it.
Time to move on to a different project (pulse motor of course lol).

John can speak for himself, IMHO I think he may be misunderstood. Say what he does or not the proof of how he is running it is in the frame by frame. This is how I understood it when he was speaking as well. I never imagined it any other way. I mean, what did he mean when he said the timing on the monopole is at 23 degrees right.... And........ let us not forget the force between the magnets, he draws it out as shown in lids crop of the vid there. I really don't understand the animosity i'm sensing here or perhaps i'm being too sensitive.

[minoly]

I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a give RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

excellent points!
however, and i speak for myself. These are only spaghetti spinners here (meant like "spaghetti westerns") dime a dozen. When I used the word efficient, that was only to reflect it still uses energy - nothing free here.