JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?

[Jimboot]

Interesting vid from Lidmotor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ob914aCKw I see Coule Joule has also done a build.
Here is JB build from last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzcYZk9MWA

[synchro1]

This is a copy posting from the "Sine Wave" thread:

The picture below from JLN is just to help visualize the concept. Look at the rings inside the core of the coil form. Imagine a bearingless tube magnet spinning inside the center of the rings where coils would be positioned as the rings are; One coil a bifilar Bedini power coil wired as Lidmoter's SSG, and the remaining seven, output coils, all "Lenz Free"!

The coil poles form on the perpendicular to the permanent magnet field, so they can't cause trouble like they would if they were facing the magnet spinner.

[minoly]

Interesting vid from Lidmotor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ob914aCKw I see Coule Joule has also done a build.
Here is JB build from last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzcYZk9MWA

check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQ7uBrSuuM


I commented on Lidmotor's youtube:


"I'm always amazed how long you can run your builds off of a supercap.
So, sorry to say this and please correct me if I misunderstand you someplace, but this is not JB's Zero Force Motor. I'm not talking about the build or some little idiosyncrasy that I'm getting hung up on.
There is one reason this is not Zero Force. hint - if it was Zero Force, you would not be able to run it on that circuit you have there.
cheers - Patrick"
and he muted me - lol


I guess I was too secretive on my comment? Anyway, the zero force if you understand it does not make a significant wave, that is you should not be able to trigger a transistor hence you can not run it that way. this is why JB is using a reed switch. We can just as well use a hall sensor. The timing is also important which is another reason to get the "trigger" out of the coil...
Cheers - Patrick (my real name!)

[MileHigh]

I'm baffled as to why it's called "zero force" considering that it requires force to make the rotor spin and that force comes from the repulsion or attraction between the rotor magnets and the magnetic fields produced by the two drive coils.  I suppose that you could call it a "marketing term."

Putting the drive coils sideways still results in a magnetic force on the rotor magnets.  The reduced coupling between the magnets and the drive coils will reduce the EMF induced in the coils when the rotor magnets pass, but so what?  EMF induced in the drive coils has no really significant effect on the operation of the motor.  I believe in JB's clip he is also referring to this as "counter-EMF."

JB says, "The motor is running in a neutral zero field."  It's not hard to visualize the field produced by the drive coils and that's certainly not a "neutral zero field."  He says that the motor "does not have a counter-EMF while it is rotating."  The truth is that it does, although it is reduced like I state above.  All that you have to do is scope a disconnected drive coil and spin the rotor by hand and you will clearly see the EMF (a.k.a. "counter-EMF") induced in the drive coils by the passing magnets.  There are some gentle slopes that you see on the scope display which may be due to the induced EMF.  But keep in mind, this induced EMF has no real effect on the operation of this pulse motor, so it is meaningless.  In his clip he talks about a "figure-eight loop" and "spins" for the magnetic fields generated by the drive coils which is nonsense.

A month ago on his YouTube channel AaronM made this comment about this type of motor, "The novelty of this motor is that there is no back emf. Lenz's law is avoided."  What "back emf" is he talking about?  What Lenz's Law is he talking about I wonder.  Perhaps someone can educate me because I see no back-EMF and no Lenz's Law associated with this pulse motor.  I suppose it depends on how you define it.  More importantly, what tangible effect is he talking about?  He also says this, which is almost comical, "Anything that needs some good torque or speed with less electricity than it normally takes. Without Back EMF, it is way more efficient than conventional motors."  It's a pulse motor, the torque is abysmal.  Again, what "back-EMF?"  It's not "way more efficient than conventional motors."  For every pulse of the drive coils, that takes a certain amount of battery energy.  Where does that energy go?  A small amount of it goes into pushing on the rotor to make it spin.  A big chunk of it goes into subtending the magnetic field produced by each drive coil.  Most of the battery energy required to produce that pair of subtended magnetic fields does no useful work.  When the transistors switch off, you get the big high voltage spikes you see on the scope display.  That's the stored energy in the magnetic fields collapsing and slamming current through the transistors that are in the process of switching off.  It's safe to say that probably much more supplied battery energy goes into heating the transistors than goes into actually making the rotor run.  So Aaron's statement that "Without Back EMF, it is way more efficient than conventional motors." is dead wrong.

It's a fun build I am sure, and it is interesting looking from an aesthetic viewpoint.  However, it will not be more efficient than a conventionally built pulse motor.  And not to be picky, but you have to define what "efficiency" means.  You absolutely have to do this.  So by several metrics for efficiency, you can expect that a conventional pulse motor will be more efficient than the "Zero Force" motor.

MileHigh

[TinselKoala]

Here's a picture of my Marinov Slab motor that I built in 1999. The photo here was taken in 2005. I used a Hall effect sensor for the "triggering" a power mosfet but a reed switch and bipolar transistor would work just as well and would allow even lower voltage operation. This motor is an analog of the Marinov "warlock's wheel" or Siberian Coliu which has the stator structure and the armature both turning in the _same direction_. In my case of course the stator coils are fixed to the frame, but since they want to turn in the same direction as the rotor, not the opposite direction .... well, you can figure out just what that means.

Nearly _sixteen years_ ago I  made this !!