Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[synchro1]

Synchro-your just not getting it,so i will try again one last time.

Picture 1 below shows the current flowing through the primary coil when the reed is closed,and the coil is getting it's current supplied via the battery. The red arrows show the current flow path--this is conventional current flow,as if we use true current flow,then that would lead only to more confusion.
Picture one shows the current flow from the positive of the battery,through the primary coil,and to the negative side of the battery. Current is flowing from the positive potential to the negative potential via the primary coil.

Picture two.
Picture two is when the reed switch opens,and current flow from the battery is interrupted.
So in picture one,we see the current flowing into the top of the primary coil,and exiting out through the bottom. Now with the reed switch open,the voltage polarity of the coil changes/inverts as the magnetic field collapses around the primary coil. So now the bottom of the primary coil is the positive potential,and the top of the primary coil becomes the negative potential. So which way will the current be flowing now?--thats right,from the positive potential to the negative potential. So the current is still flowing in the same direction through the coil,where it enters the top of the coil,and exits the bottom of the coil-->exactly the same way it was flowing through the coil when the reed switch was closed.

Now,before anyone gets started--yes,i know electron current cannot flow through a capacitor. But the current flow is still flowing through the coil due to the depletion of electrons on the positive plate of the capacitor,and the increase of electrons on the negative plate of the capacitor(true current electron flow used here to explain). The current flow through the circuit in this case is via displacement current flow through the capacitor.

So i hope that has cleared that up Synchro.
Current continues to flow in the same direction through the coil when the reed switch is open,and will continue to flow until such time as the magnetic field around the coil has totally collapsed.

@Tinman,

How much time do you imagine it takes for the magnetic field to collapse? This is a function of the rate at which the Reed switch is opened, which is proportional to the rotor R.P.M. times the number of rotor magnets divided by seconds. So lets say the frequency is 75 hertz! You believe that's perhaps too a short an interval for the collapse to fully occur?

The way you have the schematic drawn now the flyback would simply jump the Reed switch gap to get back to the positive electrode creating a nice blue spark and not follow any path you drew! The "Flyback" has a very Hi-voltage potential compared to the original current. That's why it's not going to follow your direction. I can't believe you're persisting in trying to prove this absurdity.

[citfta]

synchro,

There is nothing absurd about what Tinman is saying.  I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

Are you willing to learn or are you going to stick to your misconceptions no matter what?  If you are not willing to learn then just ignore the rest of this post.

If you are willing to learn then please answer the following questions:

Can you do the simple test I proposed earlier with a 2 channel scope?

What direction does the current flow internally in a battery?

What is the definition of an inductor?

My apologies to luc for the side track of this thread.  Luc, if you want we can take this discussion to a new thread if synchro wants to continue this discussion.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[synchro1]

synchro,

There is nothing absurd about what Tinman is saying.  I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

Are you willing to learn or are you going to stick to your misconceptions no matter what?  If you are not willing to learn then just ignore the rest of this post.

If you are willing to learn then please answer the following questions:

Can you do the simple test I proposed earlier with a 2 channel scope?

What direction does the current flow internally in a battery?

What is the definition of an inductor?

My apologies to luc for the side track of this thread.  Luc, if you want we can take this discussion to a new thread if synchro wants to continue this discussion.

Respectfully,
Carroll

@Citfta,

Start a new thread. Where did you come up with these theories from? I've never encountered anything like this before. Can you direct me to any kind of legitimate source material whatsoever to support your claims?

[citfta]

I have started a new thread.  It is called "Inductive Kickback"  http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/msg466238/#msg466238

This information is standard textbook information about inductors.  See you on the new thread.

Carroll


ADDED BY GOTOLUC 

Please note that Carroll has started a new topic (link above) to discuss or debate anything related to "Inductive Kickback"
Normal discussions are acceptable in this topic, however, debates are not and your posts could get deleted.

Luc

[woopy]

Hi all

I have tried the 10 ohm scr between the entry of the cap and the assistant coil (X4), the trace is much better but is at no place at zéro volt, so i think perhaps my probes or my scope should be recalibrated, so i stop measuring so small current with my scope to avoid junk datas. If somebody has a better equipment, feel free to follow MH recommendations for the measurement.

So this morning i have tried to get some feeling with my hands, and i decided to place a big ventilator fan on the rotor to significantly increase the mechanical load. So i decreased the voltage to 1.9 volts and i noticed that i had to increase a lot the cap in the flyback circuit (from 0.3 up to 10 uF ) to get the best rotation speed. For info, in this case the " parent " pulse duration in the main coil, is almost the same as the "child" pulse duration in the assistant coil.

So some results on this setup

1- when the main coil and the assistant coil are working together, the input voltage is 1.9 V and the average current is 0.110 A. that is 0.21 Watts and the fan spins at 500 rpm

2- i disconnected completely the assistant coil and flyback circuitery and put away the assistant coil in order to not influence the rotor magnetism.
    - i put a freewheeling diode across the main coil and put the power on. 1.9 volts and average current at 0.12 A that is 0.23Watts to get only 450 rpm.
    - than same setup and i disconnected the diode so the reed switch is strongly arcing  so 1.9 volt at around 0.12 A , that is 0.23 Watts and only 400 rpm

3- I remounted the flyback circuitery but put away the assistant coil from the rotor - in open magnetic assistant C core = 1.9 V and 0.130 A that is 0.247 Watts with 420 rpm
                                                                                                                                    -and than i magnetically closed the C core and 1.9 V and 0.125 A that is 0.24 Watts and 416 rpm

So it seems that the assistant coil bring an strong torque addition in comparison with the main coil alone and for the same or less input power, and it is what is important to me at this stage.

Just for info

Laurent