Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[verpies]

Just to add to my video , i placed a drum with winglets on my rotor to create an aerodynamic torque.

Are your winglets metal or plastic?

Could you make a scopeshot when the rotor is spinning at 4mm with this trivial circuit? (with 2 pulses visible on the screen)
Could you make a scopeshots with the rotor stationary (with magnets far away and close by the coil's core)

[itsu]

I managed to swap every other magnet over, so i now have 8 magnets NSNSNSNS.

The trivial circuit below now shows the signals as in screenshot 1 when turning the rotor by hand
Blue is across 0.1 ohm 1% csr, green is the current probe.


I have changed to flyback cap to a 10uF 630V one in the "GotoLuc Schem1f" diagram

Then i managed to sync up the rotor to the 555 timer at 40Hz @ 18% duty cycle, see screenshot 2 (still at 12V input)
blue again the signal across the csr point A with reference to point B
purple the signal on point C with ref to point B
yellow the signal on point D with ref to point B

I think the purple and yellow channel needs to be inverted.

The DMM across the 120 Ohm R2 shows 1.57V


Screenshot 3 shows the same situation with the rotor stopped.

The DMM across the 120 Ohm R2 now shows 1.16V

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r6a_hgJlko&feature=youtu.be


Itsu

[gotoluc]

Excellent test itsu

thanks for also making a video.

Well, for those who have done the tests we are all getting same results. The magnet rotor reduces the input and increases the output.

I like the explanation user citfta posted at Brad's topic:

I think the real problem here is what people are defining as "work".  A turbo does not do any "work".  But when you add one to a gasoline or diesel engine it most certainly improves the efficiency.   Maybe that is not "work" but is is most definitely beneficial.   I see the rotor the same way.  Maybe the magnets don't do "work" but they sure seem to be beneficial in almost all the tests that have been done on this forum.  If you don't want to call that work that is fine with me.  But until I see otherwise I have to believe the rotor with magnets is causing a beneficial effect.

Carroll

Are the magnets acting like a trubo?... maybe and who cares as long as we know the magnets can boost the efficiency like a turbo does to a ICE, then I say lets use it and move on and lets find a way to use it to our advantage.

I have some ideas, what about you guys?

Luc

ADDED: here is a video Lidmotor did back in 2009 which he just posted in Brad's topic that demonstrates the same effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afEWXadfpqY

[verpies]

The DMM across the 120 Ohm R2 shows 1.57V

Very clean waveforms again and they appear how they are supposed to.  No inversion changes necessary.

The double M waveform in the trivial circuit is caused by the fringing flux of the magnets. The 2 peaks occur when the magnet is half way eclipsing the coil's core and the dip between these peaks occurs at TDC.

The R2 is significantly distorting the voltage measurements across C2 !!! This happens because now you have higher voltage across C2 (~57V) and the peak discharge current increased to 57V/120Ω = 475mA ...and before it was 15V/120Ω=125mA, if the previous R2 was the same.

If you do not want to go to the trouble of making an active C2 discharger, at least increase R2 so much that the voltage across C2 falls down to 0V just before the MOSFET opens at the end of the next energizing pulse....like I have drawn below.

If you do this, then the average DMM voltage reading will increase significantly, but it is the peak voltage calculated by the scope, that will be your true indicator of the recovered energy, according to E=½CV². 
And if you zoom in and give me the rise time of the voltage across C2 I should be able to calculate how much higher the voltage peak would be if R2 was deleted altogether.




P.S.
If you had an active C2 discharger circuit, then the average voltage shown by the DMM would become equal to the peak voltage across C2, while the yellow waveform would become almost rectangular ...and the voltage peak itself would be higher, too.

[MileHigh]

Are the magnets acting like a trubo?... maybe and who cares as long as we know the magnets can boost the efficiency like a turbo does to a ICE, then I say lets use it and move on and lets find a way to use it to our advantage.

I have some ideas, what about you guys?

Luc

You have to keep all options on the table.  The spinning rotor will reduce the power draw.  In Itsu's scope captures you can see that without the rotor the coil drew more power and the back spike also had more power.  So for Itsu's setup, comparing power out vs. power in and rotor vs. no rotor does not look conclusive if you are looking at the power out vs. power in metric.

Let's just look at the power draw of the coil itself.  When you add the spinning rotor you get reduced power draw.  That is clear and has been replicated many times.  But how about this:  Instead of adding the rotor to reduce the power draw, why not forget about the rotor completely and just reduce the drive voltage for the coil?  So that also gives you reduced power draw without adding a rotor.  The back spike might still output the same amount or power.  Do you see what I mean?  This is highly academic because what can you do with a pulsing coil if you don't have a rotor?