Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System

[Nink]

Please show your working.

Assume efficiency of pump moving water to the top of the wheel is 70% (most pumps are 60% (but lets assume they have a really efficient pump) so we just lost 30% of the energy moving the water up to the top. Now assume the water wheel has an efficiency of 80% (there is no data to say it is more or less efficient so I will say it is 80% unless corrected) and this is super efficient unlike an overshot wheel at ~60% or undershot wheel ~50% (again these guys are smart)

As you see in the video is the water goes to the top of the device into a reservoir. This then flows down into the paper sheets on the side. of the wheel making them moist.  Now what we don't see in the video is there was also a fan that that is used to mist the water and keep it to only the enclosed side of the wheel.   You have to read the white paper to get that info but here is is for your benefit

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/full/ncomms8346.html

Characterization of the rotary engine
"A small electric fan was placed in the chamber to control airflow surrounding the rotary engine. "

The problem they solved here with the fan is they only want to have one half of the environment to be humid and the other half can't be humid (keep the water vapor on the left hand side and not on the right).  So I am going to make an assumption they said it was a sunon fan they were using in another section of the paper and the lowest watt fan I could find from Sunon is 1/2 a Watt (so lets assume this is it)

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Blowers-Fans/DC-Fans/10-CFM-12-VDC-FAN-1-2-WATT-16-1444.axd

So if it takes 1000mW to move the water to the top its 1000mW *.7 (loss from pumping)  *.8 (loss from Water whee) - 500mW (loss from Fan) = 60mW of power generated for 1000mW of power. Now I really don't know how much water they moved to the top etc these are all assumptions but I think I have been rather generous in the calculations. 

As for the warkerwater tower looks like a great way to extract water but unless someone can tell me how it can be used to create two environments 1 humid and  1 not humid and allow a wheel to move between these two environments without using any power I will stay with my statement this needs 10* the power. 

[gravityblock]

Assume efficiency of pump moving water to the top of the wheel is 70% (most pumps are 60% (but lets assume they have a really efficient pump) so we just lost 30% of the energy moving the water up to the top. Now assume the water wheel has an efficiency of 80% (there is no data to say it is more or less efficient so I will say it is 80% unless corrected) and this is super efficient unlike an overshot wheel at ~60% or undershot wheel ~50% (again these guys are smart)

As you see in the video is the water goes to the top of the device into a reservoir. This then flows down into the paper sheets on the side. of the wheel making them moist.  Now what we don't see in the video is there was also a fan that that is used to mist the water and keep it to only the enclosed side of the wheel.   You have to read the white paper to get that info but here is is for your benefit

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/full/ncomms8346.html

Characterization of the rotary engine
"A small electric fan was placed in the chamber to control airflow surrounding the rotary engine. "

The problem they solved here with the fan is they only want to have one half of the environment to be humid and the other half can't be humid (keep the water vapor on the left hand side and not on the right).  So I am going to make an assumption they said it was a sunon fan they were using in another section of the paper and the lowest watt fan I could find from Sunon is 1/2 a Watt (so lets assume this is it)

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Blowers-Fans/DC-Fans/10-CFM-12-VDC-FAN-1-2-WATT-16-1444.axd

So if it takes 1000mW to move the water to the top its 1000mW *.7 (loss from pumping)  *.8 (loss from Water whee) - 500mW (loss from Fan) = 60mW of power generated for 1000mW of power. Now I really don't know how much water they moved to the top etc these are all assumptions but I think I have been rather generous in the calculations. 

As for the warkerwater tower looks like a great way to extract water but unless someone can tell me how it can be used to create two environments 1 humid and  1 not humid and allow a wheel to move between these two environments without using any power I will stay with my statement this needs 10* the power.

Thanks for the good laugh Nink!  You have once again demonstrated your inability to properly understand what you see and what you read.  However, I give you credit for participating in this discussion and for taking it upon yourself to read the white paper, even though you took what you read completely out-of-context.  An electric fan isn't needed and was never used in the video for the rotary engine as you falsely assert!  In a separate experiment which you are referring to in the white paper, they completely enclosed the moisture mill inside a chamber of 2-mm-thick acrylic glass so the humidity couldn't escape into the outside environment.  They used an electric fan to evenly distribute a stream of humidity-controlled air that was pumped into the enclosed chamber.  This experiment was to simulate a moisture mill operating in a very humid environment.  The WarkaWater Tower can recycle the evaporated water from the dryer side of the moisture mill via condensation, which moves the evaporated water back to the top of the water reservoir without any electricity, and at the same time help to maintain two environments (1 humid and 1 dry). 

Gravock

[Nink]

Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.
What the inventors were exploring is the potential difference between two environments, a humid environment and a dry environment but just like all systems of energy generation that are based on potential difference (hot/cold wet/dry +/- etc) they will eventually equalize unless an external force is used to maintain that potential difference and the energy used to maintain the difference is always greater. 

No matter what system you design it will always equalize. This one I guarantee would equalize in seconds if they are not pumping moist air in or use a fan as a weather wall or .... 

The energy required to drive this device is 10* the energy produced.  If this is not the case how come they did not demonstrate it without needing electrically powered fans or pumps or.....   I hate to say it you and everyone else were duped by a youtube video with comments closed. 

I have no idea how you envision the Warkawater tower will maintain two separate environments one dry and one humid. Enlighten me. 

[gravityblock]

Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.
What the inventors were exploring is the potential difference between two environments, a humid environment and a dry environment but just like all systems of energy generation that are based on potential difference (hot/cold wet/dry +/- etc) they will eventually equalize unless an external force is used to maintain that potential difference and the energy used to maintain the difference is always greater. 

No matter what system you design it will always equalize. This one I guarantee would equalize in seconds if they are not pumping moist air in or use a fan as a weather wall or .... 

The energy required to drive this device is 10* the energy produced.  If this is not the case how come they did not demonstrate it without needing electrically powered fans or pumps or.....   I hate to say it you and everyone else were duped by a youtube video with comments closed. 

I have no idea how you envision the Warkawater tower will maintain two separate environments one dry and one humid. Enlighten me.

I agree the potential difference in a closed system will eventually equalize over time.  However, this is an open system, and the external energy responsible for the evaporation cycle will always be greater in order to maintain this potential difference.

Gravock

[gravityblock]

Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.

The above needs special attention, because it is intentionally deceitful and misleading.  We're not trying to create a very humid environment for both sides of the moisture mill that is completely enclosed in a way where the humidity can't escape, thus the pump and fan which you speak of is totally meaningless and actually defeats the devices's true and intended purposes.  The WarkaWater tower can maintain low humidity levels on the dryer side of the moisture mill via evaporation and condensation, even in a very humid external environment.

Gravock