Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems

[Magluvin]

The 10db gain I will get at 50hz compared to my friends setup will have an audible sense of doubling.  3db increase is just a noticeable increase.  He would have to have an increase of power that is almost 10 times to get that loud at 50hz. We are both running 5200w from the same equip. That would mean he would need about 45,000w to accomplish the same db level at 50hz. That is some good efficiency Ill be getting just by building the box differently but the same internal cuft volume for his and mine.

Mags

[Belfior]

My philosophy is that everything is waves. Matter is just standing waves. I see many analogies in nature/sound that could and should be experimented with in electronics. We are drifting further away from real things when we pretend we are better than the ground we came from.

In my black book I got ideas like a tube with an elastic membrane in the middle. Left side of the tube filled with helium and right side with something heavier than air. Then you place speakers on both ends.

What happens when you blast the other speaker? What if the membrane/material is vibrated to resonance? Can we just shift frequencies or do we get more out from the other speaker that acts now as a receiver?

I think the more you do stuff like nature does you get somewhere. That is why I feel a spark gap is always better to try stuff out with. It is more alive and autotunes to situations. Then when you find some principle or effect you can build the thing with transistors.

If you are bound by the transmitting frequency you could try the heavy gas inside the subwoofer box?

[Magluvin]

Ive been steering away from spark gaps(only have a couple more things Id like to try with them) and pulsing ferite cores to a point where they emit radiations NMR for safety reasons. Some have claimed of headaches and such with that and spark gaps supposedly can emit Xrays.
So all that may reduce my chances of finding FE, but Im still hopeful with resonance and im examining that in a different form with ideas that are already out there, just nobody in the car audio community seems to have gotten to yet. There are other speaker enclosures that I have yet to even ponder how they work, but Im terribly interested to play around with them. Here are some in the pics of more complex ideas below. There are not any speaker box programs out there for the 'average guy" that can do predictions on these box configs, let alone a dual chamber reflex of either type. If any of these designs below can increase the output further than I have shown so far by example(except for the 35hz and 38hz trace) then I want to know how that gain is produced. How far can we go with it. Its a combination of resonances that are increasing the gains, like I said earlier it may give us an indication on how the TPU worked, possibly. All of those traces are at 1w. My DCR design can possibly hit 160db with 5200w real watts vs guys running 30kw and 40kw that are using inefficient woofers that happen to be able to take that kind of input. I call it the car audio scam, make big expensive subs that need a lot of power to achieve what most of them ignore about the Sensitivity parameters of the speakers. Im going in as the underdog with $1000 dollars of equipment against goliaths and Im competing with them with a fairly good knowledge of resonance in this area. Most of them are using either vented boxes or 4th order with the speaker in the box between 2 chambers and the other chamber is ported out and all the sound exits the port. I have a clear advantage with the DCR box along with more efficient subs 96db @1w vs many that are below 90db @1w.

So in all that, I want to examine resonance in this fashion for a while and see how far I can go with it. If I can go another leap with this, then I want to examine how to do the same with electronic versions. The key will be translating how to get more output than just a basic driven coil can produce, just like the speaker. Like Im not totally sure that putting 2 LCs, 1 on each side of the drive coil, will increase efficiency like the 35hz/38hz peaky trace in the graph. Or if say 1 LC is tuned at say 2500hz and the other at 5000hz would give us a gain vs just one or the another alone as a pickup or say sec of a transformer, or even help the gains of each other like the speaker box. But this is where Im restarting my investigation for now and I believe by better understanding of this, will help me with that.

This is all within the description of the thread. 

Mags

[Belfior]

I am just getting started with coils! Actually did my first actual tesla coil today. It seems you gotta do few get get a good one. Top load is tin cans and the secondary has too few turns and not even from a one solid cable. But I got got the setup done so that I can switch secondaries and primaries easily.

Bought some wooden shelves, so I can get these PVC coils horizontal and bolted in one place. This way I can store them away easily.

[Magluvin]

I guess the big point Im trying to instill here is that resonance 'should' be able to increase efficiency in our circuits just like it does for the speaker.

I think those of us that have experimented are possibly doing it wrong when it comes to getting better output using resonance. There are some switching supplies out there that are very efficient in the mid to high 90s that run up to 150kz. Can graeter efficiency be had with such already high efficiency devices? Does it have to be dramatically redesigned in order for it to work to a benefit?

Similarly, Pioneer has another 12in sub that has an efficiency level of 105db @1w input. I have one coming in today to test in the same vented test box as the Champ pro which is at 96db @1w. That is an increase of 9db over the Champ and just absolutely killing them all with their 88 and 90db subs which can cost 500 to over $1000 ea (talking 15in subs) vs the under $100 Pioneers. So I might have another gain in the competition, if the sub sounds good in the same box. Computer sim shows its good, but I always do testing to be sure.  The champ sub compared to this other Pioneer TS-W1200PRO needs 8 times the input power to play as loud. Like the champ would need 8w to play as loud as the 1200pro at 1w, similarly if the champ were at full rms of 800w, the 1200pro only needs 100w to do the same work. So if we run the 1200pro at 800w, the champ would need 6400w to catch up, of which it is only rated at 2000w peak intermittent input, so that cant happen.

This test is exciting to me. Looking all over, YT and search and nobody is implementing this sub really. They are lead to believe that giant multi stacked magnets and large roll surrounds for longer throw will give them louder bass, while this one has an older style accordion surround and a not so large magnet, the eff level is ignored by most.

I dont have to have big cone excursion like them as the resonance helps keep the excursion in check in the lower 'and' upper bass region and the ports are outputing most of the work. The large roll surrounds, sure they allow a bigger excursion of the cone, but the large roll surround takes away active cone area where they use say a 12in cone on a 15in sub.

So Im looking at the eff levels as an important advantage. Just like if we were to try and design a transformer to initially test before we make a comparative one adding resonance, I think the initial test transformer and associated circuit needs to be designed to a very high effective efficiency, otherwise we may still be below 100% after adding resonance and fail to respect any gains in the midst of our goals here.

Like pulse motors. They are probably mostly very inefficient at producing mech measurable output. Sure some seem like wow, micro watts in and it turns. Wooptydoo. But drive something with it and you get not much either. So any possibly even small gains by somehow implementing resonance ends up far from our goal. Then yeah, resonance may look like its not the answer. But applying it to an already very efficient device may help a great deal when we are looking to breach 100%.

So I am telling about the eff of speakers as an example.  This box of 12in subs at 5200w will simply destroy my buddys truck with 6 15in subs at 15kw. He would need 60kw to do the same as the 12s running at their rms level.  Its gunna be a pitty party. He now thinks he will beat me with the same 12s and power in his friends suv. Im not going to let that happen. The double chamber reflex enclosure will beat him with the same champ subs. And if the new sub coming today works good in the same box as the computer predicts, it will be a slaughter.   

Mags