MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=16589.msg486693#msg486693 date=1466426611]

Here is what you quoted for one of Poynt's statements:
Did you get kicked in the head by a goat?   Did you walk and smack your head into a barber shop pole?  That is a statement that Poynt retracted after he got his proper bearings you dumbass.

I see you have resorted to your rude insults again.
Lets have a look at the real context of my statement--which of course you have left out-->as you do.
My statement of what Poynt said,that you think is false.
Quote: Yes, nothing will happen with the ideal inductor, i.e. it will have 4V (or whatever the voltage is at any point in time) across it and zero current through it for ever and ever.

Now-here is the vital piece you missed,so as you could once again,try and make me out to be the bad guy.
Before any of those statements were quoted in post 1138,i said this first-as can be clearly seen.
Quote:  Even the best some times make mistakes. And then i quoted the mistakes made.
So another epic fail on your behalf MH,as i was only quoting the mistakes that the best of the best can make--along with the rest of us.
You need to read a bit better,or understand what you are reading-->and stop this urge you have to lie.

Your statement is 100% false and have a good sizzling extra crispy brain fry over that.

It would seem you have had your own brain fry this time-again

I guess your are mentally challenged and will never have the intellectual capacity to understand this very basic stuff about ideal voltage sources.  You think that there is a conflict between me stating that an ideal voltage source does not contain energy and Poynt saying that the energy stored in the inductor is returned to the voltage source.  In fact there is no conflict at all.  It's all simply just too much for your limited sizzling brain to understand.

Go ahead Einstein,tell us all how energy is sent back to something that cannot contain that energy?--this should be good
To contain-->have or hold (someone or something) within<--just incase you dont understand the meaning of contain

And here we are back in the business where your brain is too limited and you can't just work with things conceptually so your "big comeback" is the usual old line:  "An ideal voltage source dose not exist so what you are saying dose not make sense because it dose need to be shone with a real circuit that dose exist."

Shone?-->past and past participle of shine
Do you mean shown perhaps?.
Yes,that is the scientific method to validate a claim. You are making the claim,and now it is time for you to validate that claim by actually testing the DUT in question.

Meanwhile you have been told multiple times now that a good audio amplifier could be used as an approximation of an ideal voltage source and a a reasonable facsimile of the circuit could be built and tested.

Well this is good for you MH,as you should be able to obtain the equipment needed in order to validate your claim. Your ideal voltage source must have 0 internal resistance,and allow for the current to continue to flow at 2.4 amps for 2 seconds. Your 5H coil must also have 0 resistance. These two items will then be an accurate account of the items needed for the test in question.

But lets be honest here MH--you know you will find no such voltage source,nor will you be able to come up with a coil of 5H that has 0 resistance. So you cannot qualify your answer.

Now let's get into the ultimate brain fry mode, the mother of all of Brad's brain fries:
Here is the equation that shows how you determine a resistor's voltage:
V = IR
Here is the equation that shows how you determine a resistor's current:
I = V/R
Here is the equation that shows how you determine an inductor's voltage:
V(t) = L di/dt
Here is the equation that shows how you determine a inductor's current:
I(t) = 1/L integral(V)dt
That's it, if you could understand this stuff then you could answer the question no problem and nothing has to be built.  You just have to have the intellectual capacity to understand it.

And how are you going to show us all that when you pass that threshold of going from a circuit that has resistance,to that of one which has none,an infinite change dose not occur?
You are taking a !guess!,and this is a guess you cannot back up with a test carried out based around the actual described device in your question.

For me, there are only three outstanding issues and I will mention them again and I will put them in a better sequence this time:

1.  MH gets up the learning curve and understands the original question and Carries out the needed test to qualify his answer
2.  MH admits that he pics and chooses parts of posts,and then reassembles them into lies,to make others out to be bad people,when the truth is quite the opposite.
3. MH admits that he dose not know what an ideal voltage source is.


Brad

[tinman]

Dear MileHigh.

Many thanks for your interesting interpretation of the links I shared. The story goes that the Petter Super scavenge engine came about by accident. Upon load testing one day the engineers saw a marked reduction in fuel consumption for the load applied, during their investigation they found that someone had forgotten to replace the crankcase doors after a spot of maintenance. Being a Two stroke design using crankcase compression/transfer obviously something else was recharging the cylinder...... The exhaust !! 

I'm having to copy and paste as my browser keeps coming back with " page unavailable. "

You wrote. " That's in contrast to a pipe organ or a whistle, where the tube is acting like a resonator and kinetic and potential energy is resonating back and forth in a standing sound wave inside the tube. "

If I have read you correctly? You're saying that an organ pipe is a " True " resonator ?

My question is, what's the difference?

In an organ pipe we have air under pressure passing the " flue " that creates a series of pressure waves to make a sound of a given frequency.
The same thing is happening in an exhaust pipe, the only difference is in the way the pulses are generated.

From my point of view I see the same picture. I realise that my posts are irritating to some so this will be my last on this subject, I will, however look forward to reading your reply.

Kind regards, Grum.

Not at all Grum.
It will be irritating to only one,as it is not inline with his limited beliefs and parameters.


Brad

[centraflow]

A good friend of mine made this video and it is so so apt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrvRAjq3h1g


Regards


Mike


PS. I do not make many videos public, only private, and I put in years of bench time, just in case a comment is made.

[MileHigh]

A good friend of mine made this video and it is so so apt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrvRAjq3h1g

Regards

Mike

PS. I do not make many videos public, only private, and I put in years of bench time, just in case a comment is made.

Sure Mike, let's deal with this one right away and put this puppy to bed.

Here is what I said to the commenters on that clip:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Hello, this is User2718218 and I am forced to post this on your clip to defend myself against the allegations that I am a troll made by Robert Murray Smith on his clip, "On User2718218 A Troll And What To Do About Him" because he banned my comments.  His allegations are NOT TRUE and I will explain why using some postings of mine in defense of myself that Robert Murray Smith banned you from seeing.

I engaged with Robert because he made extravagant claims about his supercapacitors without offering up any credible measurements at all. I have a technical background and I was smelling something that wasn't right. Robert has consistently refused to comment on any of my legitimate technical questions or justifiable criticisms and instead he tried to impugn my character by insulting me. This clip is more about Robert than it is about me. To see an unfiltered debate between myself and Robert where the truth comes out, please go to Lasersaber's channel and look at the comments on the "Homemade Graphene Supercapacitors - First Tests " clip.  Most of his comments on the Lasersaber clip have been removed, so it looks mostly like a one-way conversation.  Presumably all the comments where he insults me like a troll and attacks my character have been removed.

The Lasersaber clip with my debate with Robert Murray Smith:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5cOebnCvXo

Part 2 of my defense of my character and the false allegations of Robert Murray Smith:

It is perfectly legitimate to observe someone's technical presentation and comment on it without replicating it.  That's how real science works, it's called peer review.  I don't have to replicate anything when Robert makes a clip where he is supposedly measuring the energy output of one of his devices over time.  In the clip he measures the current output but does NOT measure the corresponding voltage and he does NOT factor in the fact that the voltage is continuously dropping because he simply isn't measuring it.  That is a purely nonsensical unscientific measurement that is totally meaningless data, and yet he expresses pride in a nonsensical measurement that would make him the laughing stock in any grade ten physics class.  I am being absolutely serious about this, his "measurement" is pure junk.  It is that bad and I felt compelled to speak up and engage with him because of this outrageous nonscientific behaviour that he was doing.  All that he could do was insult me and he has never responded once to any of my 100% legitimate technical comments and criticisms.  Please go to the Lasersaber clip for more information.

What is one of my primary interests on YouTube?  What I really like to do is comment on fraudulent scammers that try to sell fake free energy devices.  I do this purely out of altruism towards my fellow man, and I have helped in busting professional free energy scammers over the years.  There are too many people being taken advantage of when it comes to this stuff and I try to stop it.

Robert Murray Smith is not a free energy scammer.  I looked at his clips because I was and still am enthusiastic about the advances in technology when it comes to supercapacitors.  However, to my shock, I saw shoddy practices and totally useless and illegitimate "measurements" that are simply lies.  And I saw unsubstantiated outrageous claims with no measurements.  I felt compelled to engage with him about these serious measurement issues and the related issue of scientific credibility.  Robert has never once responded to my legitimate questions about his ridiculous measurements that make no technical sense and to my questions related to how grossly inaccurate his measurements where and how his conclusions about those grossly inaccurate questions were not credible.  Instead he insulted me and attacked my character like a troll himself.

I am here to do GOOD, I am not a troll.  That is the honest truth.  I challenged Robert Murray Smith because he needed and deserved to be challenged.

The fundamental issue is this:  Robert Murray Smith made false and misleading measurements and associated claims about his supercapacitors.  One of his measurements is actually an invalid and technically incorrect measurement that makes no logical sense, it is a complete failure.  I challenged him about these serious serious issues and he refused to respond to the technical issues and he also insulted me and criticized my character,  A typical response from him to my serious technical question was "You are an idiot."  He said that because he has no technical argument to argue that he was correct, because he was incorrect.

In life we have to have principles that we must live by, we can't be morally apathetic.  Sometimes when you see something that is wrong, you are just and good in saying that it is wrong.

I am no troll, I assure you, and I do not need to replicate his experiments.  The experiments themselves are not the issue.  The issue is the false and misleading and incorrect measurements made by Robert Murray Smith.

False and misleading measurements lead to false and misleading claims.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I come out smelling like roses and RMS stinks to high heaven.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Mike:

Like I already said, on the Lasersaber video clip, RMS deleted all of his comments and ran away.  None of his comments ever dealt with the technical issues I was raising and the whole time he was a faker.  He would say things like, "You don't know what you are talking about" or "You're an idiot" or he would try to nervously and dismissively laugh off what I was saying to him.   In other words he was being totally pretentious.

Only half of the discussion remains.  Here are some of my choice comments for you to contemplate:

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+Robert Murray-Smith What Lasersaber, Tinman, and you need to do is make credible measurements of the capacitance of your home-made supercapacitors.  Are you competitive with what is commercially available or not?  Is your energy density competitive with what is commercially available or not?  I looked at one of Tinman's clips and his claimed Farad capacity and what was shown in the clip was not credible. You three gentlemen need to make open, honest, and credible clips where you precisely measure the capacitance of your capacitors.  Are you guys really onto something, or can anybody go onto Digikey and order supercapacitors that outperform your home-brew supercapacitors? We are talking about the difference between anecdotal demonstrations of what the supercapacitors can do vs. getting serious and making real measurements.

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+Robert Murray-Smith No Robert, it's a perfectly sensible thing to say.  You are building a capacitor, and you should make a measurement of your device.  It's as plain as day.  I am sensing that you might not know how to do it.  Just Google it, learn about how to go about it, and then do some experiments.

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+Robert Murray-Smith What I know is that I asked you on your channel to make measurements of the capacitance to back up your claims and you flinched there also just like you are flinching here.  You made a serious technical mistake with your tap charging of your supercapacitors and you would not admit to it and instead of thanking me for politely pointing out the issue to you,  you denied it and subsequently deleted all of my comments.  So you seem to have some issues. A Maxwell K2Series BCAP 2000 Farad ultracapacitor is in a can that is 10 cm long x 6 cm in diameter.  In one of your clips you claim that you made a home-brew 2000 Farad capacitor that is roughly the size of a credit card.  Let us be conservative and say that you are claiming 10X the energy density by volume with your credit card sized capacitor that you claim is 2000 Farads. The onus is on you to prove that is true - that your credit-card-sized capacitor is 2000 Farads because right now I do not believe it. Apparently you are making the assumption that people don't want to see you make measurements to back up your rather fantastic claims on YouTube.  I can assure you that many people do indeed want to see you back up your claims with measurements. You attract attention from free energy enthusiasts and that field is rife with people making fake claims and enthusiasts that almost never ask the basic questions that should be asked.  2000 Farads in a form factor roughly the size of a credit card does not smell right to me so I am asking you to back up your claims with credible, honest, and open measurements.  Yet you are flinching and trying to be dismissive of my perfectly legitimate request and also trying to use deflection by trying to impugn my character.  Why don't you just make measurements and back up your claims like any person building supercapacitors should be happy to do?

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+Robert Murray-Smith So much for all the big talk, you deleted your comments and ran away.  My advice to you is just be real, don't be a poseur.  Next time you make a home-made supercap clip, then try making a second clip where you measure the value of your supercap.  This is a reasonable request and I hope you think about it seriously and honestly.