Ring Magnet SMOT

[gyulasun]

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I still think he should remain the SMOT unchanged in both experiments. Any change of conditions during an experiment will unddoubtedly invalidate the experiment. The ball rolls upwards with respect to gravity, but not with respect of the magnetic forces.
The added potential energy the ball receive at the top of the SMOT is already added by Naudin when the ball is placed inside the SMOT input.
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">The ball rolls upwards with respect to gravity, but not with respect of the magnetic forces."

No. The magnetic forces performed their work when the ball went through the SMOT setup, here the magnets worked against gravity this way the ball obtained a few mm extra height: this is what made the few cm longer travel in the glass pipe versus the case in the 2nd experiment.

">The added potential energy the ball receive at the top of the SMOT is already added by Naudin when the ball is placed inside the SMOT input."

No. Naudin did not add any more potential energy in the 2nd experiment he did when he placed the ball to the input of the SMOT in the 1st experiement. Potential energy Mr Hand added to the ball was the same in both experiements due to observing equal heights (this was the only reason for Naudin to turn the SMOT platform 180° to have the same height for the ball directly in front the glass pipe).

Gyula

[Low-Q]

You still forget that the SMOTs normal entrance is part of the complete cycle. Dropping the ball from the same hight after he turned the SMOT 180° is an excellent way to measure this, but then the SMOT cannot be changed to do so correctly.


In normal operation the SMOT can lift the ball via the incline because the incline is not steep, and the SMOT compensate this lift by using longer displacement and longer time. The highest potential energy of the ball, is when the ball is at the SMOTs entrance, and not when it is dropped from the end of the SMOT!
It appears that the ball has gained potential energy as it rolls up the SMOT, while it's not. What you see visually might make assumtions that the ball roll upwards, but not with respect to all the forces involved.


In case of a SMOT, the mechanism is mind boggling to watch, but it does not produce excess energy. It just appears to do so visually because the observer is only affected by gravity, and no other forces that would affect the observers perception.


You must analyze the situation from the balls perspective, not by your own visual perspective. If you do that, you can visualize a ball lifted upon a hill by Mr. Hand, providing potential energy to the ball. Let the ball roll down the hill (along the SMOT). Now, the ball has kinetic energy due to its motion. Then you loop the track back to the starting point. Now the ball must use its kinetic energy to climb the hill untill its rest at the top of the same hill it was dropped from.


I have attached a picture that visualize the balls perspective with respect to all forces involved. This drawing are apparently incorrect, because our perceptions does not involve magnetic forces - only gravity. However, a correct comparison of the forces involved.


Vidar

[gyulasun]

You still forget that the SMOTs normal entrance is part of the complete cycle. Dropping the ball from the same hight after he turned the SMOT 180° is an excellent way to measure this, but then the SMOT cannot be changed to do so correctly.....

Vidar, the SMOT shown by Naudin can be changed after the ball left the output of the SMOT like Naudin changed it because the effect of the change on the ball's energy level (either repulsion or attraction) is extremely small, practically it can be fully neglected in his shown setup.
This is because the order of influence must have been in the femto or picoJoule range due to the 90° flipped ceramic magnets  and the actual distances involved while Naudin measured the potential energy levels in the few milliJoule range in his tests ( http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smot1jln.htm ).

Regarding SMOTs that are built with strong Neo magnets, the influence of the stronger fields on the ball after it leaves the SMOT output may be higher than with ceramic magnets, this may or may not manifest in the distance covered by the ball in the glass pipe, so I do not fully reject this with Neo magnets on the SMOT ramp.

But I still do not think though that the stronger magnetic fields from the Neo magnets would change the game i.e. the ball would not cover higher rolling distance in the glass pipe when it falls down from  higher height at the SMOT output versus the case when the ball is simply dropped into the same pipe from the lower height the SMOT has at its entrance.

Vidar, whatever you write on the SMOT that it does not lift an object (i.e. a ball for instance) to a higher height (hence insuring higher potential energy for it at its output versus its input), whatever fancy drawings you make on the potential energy, these do not change experimental results what for instance Naudin showed with his higher potential energy findings for the ball after going through the SMOT. Your drawing comes from your imagination while his findings come from practical measurement. 

Gyula

EDIT  This is the correct link for the energy measurements: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotnrgt.htm  what I gave above it shows the magnet arrays for the SMOT.

[Low-Q]

This is because the order of influence must have been in the femto or picoJoule range due to the 90° flipped ceramic magnets[/size]

This is true only if the ball escape the 180° experiment in the same direction as the alignment of the magnets. However, the ball does not. It falls stright down.


Vidar

[gyulasun]

This is true only if the ball escape the 180° experiment in the same direction as the alignment of the magnets. However, the ball does not. It falls stright down.


Vidar

Well, not correct because if you base this statement on your simulation shown in your reply #31 above, then you did not include the thick iron plates that were backing the long row of ceramic magnets on their outer side all the way, see here: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smot1jln.htm 
And both iron plates faced downwards after Naudin flipped the magnet array 90°, right? Notice that the thickness of those iron plates were almost as thick as the magnets thickness, see the picture at the very bottom, SMOT v1.01

Gyula