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Overunity Machines Forum



re: energy producing experiments

Started by Delburt Phend, February 04, 2017, 09:31:19 AM

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Delburt Phend

If the block were fixed the speed of each puck would be uniform throughout. At one point the pucks are moving in the same direction. And the pucks do not slow each other down or remove each other's momentum. So, the initial momentum is equal to the final momentum which is equal to the middle momentum. And the title states that the experiment is about momentum conservation.

Delburt Phend

You have to admit to yourself that you do not know what the velocity of the block is going to be; you have never seen data for such an experiment. But there are some really good clues.

It is experimentally proven that a small mass cannot give its kinetic energy to a larger mass. When a small mass interacts with a larger mass a large quantity of kinetic energy disappears from motion. You pretend that this motion lost in collisions is lost to heat; but no matter where it goes you cannot get it back.

In 'figure 7' can the energy reduce to half in the middle of the experiment and then come back again at the end of the experiment. There is not mechanism for this to occur.

I agree that the energy at the beginning and end of the experiment are the same. But this is a consequence of the momentum being conserved not a consequence of energy being conserved.

So now I have a question for you. A 1000 kg Mercedes is moving north, at 35 m/sec, on interstate 75; and a 1000 kg Mercedes is moving south at 35 m/sec on the same interstate. What is the momentum of the system?

You could divide 'figure 7' in half horizontally and let the block become a linear bearing. The puck moving up would accelerate the bearing to the right until full extension. Then the puck would accelerate the bearing to the left until the bearing stopped. While in motion the bearing would have a portion of the puck's initial momentum. While the bearing is being stopped the momentum is given back to the puck. This allows the initial momentum to be equal to the final momentum. This would mean that the velocity is the same and the kinetic energy would be the same.

But if you use this same bearing arrangement and try to conserve energy you will find the about ½ of the energy disappears in the middle of the experiment. And there is no way to get it back.

Energy is not a conserved quantity, and this fact is worth several trillion dollars. I do not know if 'figure 7' is a thought experiment or if Laithwaite did an experiment like it. I know that he was an experimental scientist. And I also know that the 'cylinder and spheres' do this very thing. 

sm0ky2

Your missing the point here.
You cannot simply choose to start from the middle.
You must impart the momentum into the system to reach this state.


And you are absolutely correct.
I my self have only seen the earth-based version of this experiment.
Which is subject to a great deal of wind resistance.


There was an experiment performed on a SpaceLab mission in the 80's
That may be the closest we could actually achieve in terms of the apparatus.
And i don't think watching the video could be considered "me observing it".


A 'demo' was performed on board the ISS, however no data was collected.
And again, i was not in space to see this firsthand.


So the best i have to go on is hand-released toys, which cannot be measured.
(and no, watching frames on a consumer grade camera is not a measurement of momentum)


And fixed versions, which can be measured, but are missing 1 axis of freedom
and subject to friction.


the Chaos Pendulum does a much better job as a test apparatus


Momentum is always conserved. This is never violated.
But is derived from the energy of the system.
You will not "create" energy by imparting momentum in one part of the system
then extracting it in another.






I was fixing a shower-rod, slipped and hit my head on the sink. When i came to, that's when i had the idea for the "Flux Capacitor", Which makes Perpetual Motion possible.

sm0ky2

A common misinterpretation of the cylinder w spheres
Is to measure the rotational velocity of cylinder
and try to apply that velocity to the spheres, at a greater radius


This is not what occurs


The spheres lag behind, as depicted in the arc of the strings
I was fixing a shower-rod, slipped and hit my head on the sink. When i came to, that's when i had the idea for the "Flux Capacitor", Which makes Perpetual Motion possible.

Delburt Phend

Well; I will start by agreeing with part of what you said. "Momentum is always conserved. This is never violated."

But momentum is not derived from energy. Momentum is derived from the application of force or from previously existing momentum. That is what Newton's Laws of Motion are about. 

Consumer grade cameras are certainly sufficient to measure momentum; probably 100 times better than any means Newton or Galileo had. Almost every American carry in their pocket a camera that is superior to even the most professional cameras of 30 or even 20 years ago. Video cameras have frame by frame evaluation software and incredible sharpness and speed.

Of course, you can start the motion in the middle or anywhere you choose. You are the experimenter you can do what you want. I choose to start the experiment with a 5 kg block moving right at 5 m/sec. And I choose to collide it with a string (weighted on both ends) that has a mass of 5 kg (two 2.5 kg pucks) and is moving to the left at 5 m/sec. This startup will cost 50 N applied for 1 sec. At the end of the experiment, I suspect we will have 5 kg moving 10 m/sec; and this also is the motion cause by 50 N applied for 1 second. 

There is no arc in the strings of the 'cylinder and spheres' the spheres do not lag behind. They can move violently as they capture the momentum of the massive cylinder.