The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency

[TinselKoala]

I would say those coils would be lucky to be .10 ohm's.
Looks like plastic coated building wire to me.


Brad

Conrad's work is instructive in many ways. But for the best increase in distributed capacitance the adjacent conductors of the windings need to be as close together as possible,without shorting due to the high voltage differences.
SO using heavy plastic-insulated wire is not going to give as much interturn capacitance as will enamel-coated magnet wire closely wound, all other things being equal.

[Magluvin]

If you have a scientific mind you should realize that if the coil is one ohm or ten ohms it doesn't really matter.  The point is the energy storage in the resonant cavity is minuscule in comparison the power that is burned off to sustain that resonant cavity.

The above is nonsense talk and take your ridiculous MIB fantasies elsewhere, don't lay them on me.

I am still asking you to tell me what use a series bifilar coil has in the real world.

Your speculation about a series biflilar coil "giving you an instant magnetic field" is you just fantasizing again.  The very nature of the impedance of a coil and it's refusal to allow for the instant creation of a magnetic field is because it takes real electrical work to create that magnetic field.  There is an energy density in the volume of the 3D space where the magnetic field exists, and that energy comes from the current flow slowly ramping up and overcoming the electrical inertia of the coil and filling the 3D space with magnetic energy.

You can fill up a capacitor quickly and store energy in 3D space in the form of an electric field, but you can't energize an inductor quickly and store energy in 3D space in the form of a magnetic field.  It's just the nature of the beast, it's the deck of cards that Nature has given us.  So your fantasies about a "near-instant magnetic field" from a bifilar coil are not going to happen.

"If you have a scientific mind you should realize that if the coil is one ohm or ten ohms it doesn't really matter." 

But you "made" it look way way worse than the actual outcome. Way worse. If you made that mistake working at a law firm you would be fired. By making it look that bad why would anyone in their right mind even try for themselves once they innocently take in your concocted results as 'fact', that are sooo far of it isnt even funny anymore.


"The point is the energy storage in the resonant cavity is minuscule in comparison the power that is burned off to sustain that resonant cavity."

Id have to say that others here and myself can prove you very very wrong on that statement. My pendulum using the same magnets and same coils I got out of identical speakers, I was able to apply an input of say 5v into the motor side and I was able to get a higher gen voltage out of the gen side, each side a mirror image of the other. Now, if we had to identical dc motors, of any kind, and we did the shaft to shaft, applied 12v to the driver motor, would you ever expect anything above 12 out of the gen motor? My guess is that you would not and say it is impossible. And I agree. Because that situation does not have a resonance component, but my pendulum did, and it did. Wasnt much but it did IT. It did what most everyone would say cant happen no way. But it did. Just to achieve that voltage increase is enough to prove that resonance based transfer is better than a transfer without resonance. Just like a radio station and a receiver, they count on the efficiency of resonance to make transfer more efficient from one to the other.  And I dont want to hear that the voltage increase on the pendulum is not an indicator of any value compared to a non resonant transfer. If before I told you that it would be a higher output voltage than the input with identical components for the drive side and gen side, just like identical dc motors, the same, you would not believe it to be possible? Would you? Heck no because you say that resonance is basically as good as current through an energy wasting resistor. But thats clearly not the case. Still working on improvements on that one. Its funny how little things can change the outcome more and more the more you try.




"Your speculation about a series biflilar coil "giving you an instant magnetic field" is you just fantasizing again.  The very nature of the impedance of a coil and it's refusal to allow for the instant creation of a magnetic field is because it takes real electrical work to create that magnetic field.  There is an energy density in the volume of the 3D space where the magnetic field exists, and that energy comes from the current flow slowly ramping up and overcoming the electrical inertia of the coil and filling the 3D space with magnetic energy."

Your one of these guys, and its stored here on this sight, that degrades the intelligence of Tesla like he wasnt even an Edison. Ive seen it time and again from you.  Well I can see he was not your typical genius. I can see that he was right and Edison was wrong on many things.  I can see that he was well beyond in understanding of these things than just about anyone for his time. But you just dismiss it all like you never dug in and read his brilliant madness. Probably not. Or if you did you would see also. But maybe you have and you just dont wish to give him credit for anything, for 'some' reason. Anyway, Tesla said this is the operation in a series bifi coil winding, and if you dont believe it or agree with it then we will try and see.  I dont think anyone has actually gotten into those 3 ideas with the bifi yet. The only thing I can imagine with a mag field expanding to max field instantly is that we would have to capture that expanded field to get an output.  Like if it were just a bifi coil with the properties that Tesla suggests, then applying input then taking it away would not get us anything because the field max is determined by the current due to coil resistance, and the collapse for each coil bifi or normal will be the same outcome in either case. So the specialty claim by Tesla of the series bifi is that applied input will ignore the coils inductance and is only limited by resistance. So my intelect tells me that if the delay of current build is ignored then current should max out instantly, just like a non inductive resistor, like TK agreed with me on the other day here. So the magnetic field should build just as fast as the currents. What do we to with that? Lets see.

So here we are once again, we will test these new ideas and see what comes of them.  Its not about resonance anymore, on this one, so you can keep that talk down while we get 'our' hands dirty and burned with the soldering iron occasionally. 1 Cap discharge into a bifi.  2 The pri or sec of few turns around the perimeter as an air core transformer and  3 Transformer action between 2 bifi windings. 3 new tests to try and all very simple in comparison to some ongoing topics here.





"You can fill up a capacitor quickly and store energy in 3D space in the form of an electric field, but you can't energize an inductor quickly and store energy in 3D space in the form of a magnetic field.  It's just the nature of the beast, it's the deck of cards that Nature has given us.  So your fantasies about a "near-instant magnetic field" from a bifilar coil are not going to happen."

The inductor would have to have a maintained input to 'hold' the energy stored in the field. But thats to say longer term than reaching max field. So say we just pulse it with HV from a cap, spark discharge, what ever, IF the field is built instantaneously, then we have the option of shutting of the input in a very short period of time with a coil that should not operate that fast, supposedly as infinitely small as it takes to expand the field, then shut of input and redo. A coil that looks like it can only work at freq of so high, but can be used just like a 3 turn heavy ga primary when it comes to freq of operation. What can we do with that? Nobody knows yet. Well, maybe some do.

So yeah, the inductor is not a storage device like a cap, but I dont see anyone here saying otherwise that you needed to make that statement anyway.



Mags

[TinselKoala]

@Tinselkoala,

You're right, when the magnetic field collapses, the current continues to travel in the same direction except it's the bottom half of a sine wave with a negative value.

No, it isn't. It is DC current of the same direction and polarity as when the DC current is on. Look again at my demonstrations and at TinMan's suggestion. Do it yourself, if you can.

You, Milehigh, Citfa and Tinman and a host of others continue to confuse people about the nature of A.C. current, like the current that's generated by the Ruhmkorff coil secondary when the current's interrupted in the primary. You are a shameless fraud.

No, I am not, and neither are the rest of the people who actually understand what is happening. It is you who do not understand your chosen topic.

Lawrence Tseung stated that "Negative Current" is the pathway to Overunity. That's why you continue to help keep people confused about it. You don't want it! Everyone knows you Judas Priests are nothing but paid Lackeys for the "Fossil Fuel Lobby". Go to hell and burn there for all eternity you Satanic fraud, and take your pack Jackels with you!

Preserved once again for posterity. You dare to curse me? Be careful that your curse does not backfire onto yourself.

Lawrence has made many claims that have turned out not to be true. Remember the "overunity Joule Thief" fiasco? How about the "overunity kitchen stool"? I do not bother Lawrence because he has a good heart and he will (eventually) admit when he is wrong. Unlike yourself. By continuing in your manifest ERRORS, it is you who must be called a "Satanic Fraud", because you are doing real damage to young minds who may not have the education or practical experience of certain real experimenters and teachers we find on this forum.

[TinselKoala]

So my intelect tells me that if the delay of current build is ignored then current should max out instantly, just like a non inductive resistor, like TK agreed with me on the other day here.

Whaaat? If we ignore the delay of current build, the current should max out instantly? Whaaaaat? If you ignore the coffee that is in the pot, then there is no coffee in the pot?

Where did I ever agree to that? Link or quotation please.

Nothing happens instantly.

[Magluvin]

Conrad's work is instructive in many ways. But for the best increase in distributed capacitance the adjacent conductors of the windings need to be as close together as possible,without shorting due to the high voltage differences.
SO using heavy plastic-insulated wire is not going to give as much interturn capacitance as will enamel-coated magnet wire closely wound, all other things being equal.

Yes.  Probably the best would be square profile enamel wire. Also comes in a rectangular kind also. That would increase surface area proximity between windings.  In Telsas drawing of the series bifi is seems to show some heavy insulation, but that doesnt change the fact that it could be better.

Mags