Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology

[Slider2732]

Will take a look at that circuit Lidmotor too...


Here's an odd one.
I've built another 3 Coil Exciter and it does the usual things, except in one area. An AV plug doesn't work !
Of all the testing methods for wireless output, the AV plug is the firm tried tested known method of knowing that you have a wireless field.
I had tried 2x 1N4148 diodes to the Base of the transistor but that didn't produce any improvements, however a variable capacitor across the L2 removed the need for any ferrite and works great for tuning.
Could it be that the variable capacitor has fundamentally changed something ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to6OQD6RAbg
(2 mins 58secs)

[gyulasun]

Hi Nick,

Yes, a good approach to make an L3 coil can be to change the number of turns. In the comments section of Lidmotor's youtube videos he hinted at the size for L3 as "Take a AA battery, roll hard paper around it and tape it, wind up 26 Ga magnet wire on it end to end, take the battery out to make the air core coil, and that should do it." 
But if L3 was assigned to work in the original SEC circuit at around 13.5 MHz or so, and your xtal frequency is also at 13.5 MHz (and not your Tesla secondary driven by your Katcher circuit), then you could wind with less number of turns first to have the air coil self resonant frequency surely higher than 13.5 MHz. Then insert a small piece of ferrit into the coil to increase inductance hence lower its resonant frequency or use a small variable air capacitor of 20-30 pF in parallel with the coil also to lower its resonant frequency (but this latter tuning method would be very hard to accomplish due to hand capacitance).
Of course, you need to have the LED circuit attached to L3 capacitively or as needed, I mean a loaded L3 condition while tuning for resonance.But with your Tesla coil driving an L3 in the range of 0.8 to 2 or 3 MHz range, the above coil size is not good because lower frequencies need mechanically higher sized coils, you surely know this.  In this case, to approach a close hit, the single layer air coil calculator can help which gives the coil calculated self resonant frequrncy too.

Re your pondering on these tests whether they provide OU or could be looped: I do not know.  My opinion is that LED lamps presently have less conversion efficiency than 100% (light output versus DC input) and till this situation is not improved beyond 100% by advanced LED development, such circuits has no chance for OU.  Notice that for looping (as I see looping) you need a device (like say a solar cell) to convert light to electricity and such device also has less than 100% conversion efficiency, at the present state of art.

I think that any improvement that yields a decrease in input current is a step forward in a good direction, though I understand this may not be exciting for you. Afterall, we strive for OU and a certain amount of reduction in a given input power may not always be an attractive feature in cases like this.  (electricity to light conversion and vice versa)

For the time being, I agree that the diode loop as shown connected by the Doc in his latest video you refer to has the role of a small antenna, a capacitive load to the output of the AV plug so a 30-40 cm long piece of wire attached would have very similar effect on the brightness the diode loop shows on it.

Gyula

[gyulasun]

Hi Lidmotor,

Okay on your explanation, and indeed this is all normal circuit behaviour. We need to be clear on such circuits operation as much as possible. 
I just read someone's comment under your video: "Cool setup (bad pun, sorry). Aside from the transistor effect, it's fun to see electrolysis driven wirelessly." 
you see strange deductions start developing immediately like "transistor effect", very likely induced by your 'stone cold transistor' notice. There is simply no transistor effect. 
And as you observed and also commented under the video to someone else later, I quote: "the transistor temperature did warm up slightly. You could barely tell with touch but there was a slight increase in temperature." end of quote That small temperature increase came from the 288 mW I estimated above as total input power and part of this was dissipated in the transistor. 

You wrote: "Learning how things work is a good thing.  Thanks for the help."  Well, thanks also and you are welcome.

Gyula

[gyulasun]

Hi Slider,

I would say the followings:
Using a small value 5-15 pF tuning capacitor may confine resonant energy within the thus formed L₂C resonant tank much better than the self capacitance formed earlier between the adjacent turns (the tuning capacitance contains higher electrical energy than the coil self capacitance simply because it has higher capacity). This way the capacitive "displacement current" ruling earlier on the surface of the coil becomes much less when the tuning cap is attached, so electric field leakage also becomes less. The overall effect of this may be still a partial and relatively small cause though, I guess.

Another change is the natural reducement in resonant frequency to 10.1 MHz for L₂ and I wonder if you retuned coil L₃ to 10.1 MHz too?  If not, then this situation the single wire connection of L₃ to L₂ and also the close mutual magnetic coupling and detuned resonances between them may cause such strange change in electric field distribution alongside the coils. (AV plugs respond to RF voltages.)

You may say that the AV plug on the pick-up coil with the ferrit rod at that say 20 cm distance still indicates the presence of the fields as before.  But that coil has many turns and the ferrit rod in it to be able collect 'juice' just enough to light that single LED attached to it, while there is not enough field for the small piece of wire feeding the AV plug in your hand, mainly due to a detuned situation I think.  Anyway, my 2 cent... 

Gyula

[Slider2732]

Many thanks Gyula...am grateful for your help.
It would be fantastic to tune up these coils by some electronic means, but I don't know how. Much more a case of try it, see, adjust turns, see again, replace coil and onward.
What has been noted, is that with some coil combinations, the scope shows 2 waves, 1 smaller than the other and out of sync. Those are rubbish. Matching the outputs is essential for the best final output. Kinda obvious, but good to see it verified on the screen.
10.1MHz is actually an increase over the 9MHz that I thought was the limit.
With 1 set of coils the frequency was 17.8MHz, but there was barely a glow from any load LED.
I'd like to know what combination of coils will hit 13.6MHz and that can be the final resting spot for the design.
Higher than 1000uH for L1 makes the circuit quit. Lower than 150uH does the same.
L2 has a small effect on frequency (may have a lot of effect in transferral to L3).
L3 seems to rule the frequency, but, it has to be a Goldilocks coil. Fine windings of many turns are rubbish, few windings gives that same result. 
Really though, it's not a strong wireless output anyway, just a study in 3 coil systems and perhaps partially along Dr. Stiffler's research path many moons ago.