Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology

[itsu]

I just had enough 1n4148 diodes to complete this dual loop setup (2x 16 diodes), so i decided to replicate Stiffler his latest setup.

2x leds strip in series with a single led inbetween, driven by 2 diode loops 16 diodes each (1n4148), powered by the L3 coil via 2 100nF caps.

It seems indeed that each led (strip) is taking what it needs to just turn on, 2.57V for the single led, ±21V for each ledstrip.

Screenshot shows the voltage (yellow) across the single led, current (green) in the input line to the leds.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ab55U4sQ8E

Itsu

[NickZ]

   Does any one have an idea why the leds are only taking in 2.5v? And will not fully turn on to 4v. So the output is not able to deliver the full amount to the bulbs, and therefore the brightness is reduced to only the dimmer 2.5v level.
   Thanks for hanging in there, Itsu. Much appreciated.

[gyulasun]

Hi Itsu,

Thank you for doing this test.
Would like to ask that out of the double loops have you checked the current waveform in any of the single loops how they look like?  I ask this because your current probe embeds both of the loop wires simultenaously as you showed. I know the current should have the same shape (in theory) in both loops and I also think if there is some difference say in amplitude too, then it may come from the small differences in the diodes not being identical to the last mV. And very likely the current amplitude in any of the single loops is only half of the measured 2.85 mA RMS, can this be correct?  (I mean the two loop currents seem to be summed via the common series LED boards.) 

Nick, The LEDs are only taking in 2.5 V (to 2.7 V as the Doc mentioned) because the forward current flowing in the loop is only so small that it is able to bias the LEDs only that small voltage. A white LED needs about at least 3 V to 3.2 V forward voltage to give a decent brightness, this normally involves any forward current between say 10 mA and 20 mA for a single LED.
Notice that the 4 V forward voltage you wrote would already overdrive a normal white LED and kill it in a short time.  MAximum a 3.5 or 3.6 V should be involved.
Obviously, the near or close field from L3 coil is not high enough (maybe yet) to create the 3 to 3.2 V forward voltage which would involve the higher loop current hence the higher brightness, I agree with you.
I think Itsu drove the earlier single loops with DC input voltage to compare it to the measured AC loop current and he found them within ball park to have similar brightness. (If I do not recall this correctly, then Itsu surely chime in.)So simply there is still not enough RF juice to drive the loops.
Here I have to mention the Doc's 'explanation' on the LED self capacitance which would provide the current for each LED so that the brightness should come from the potential the self capacitance continuously picks up from the field and discharges it via its own LED, this may or may not be correct. To check this, you would need to connect a small value capacitor across each LEDs to see any change in brightness. The small value cap could be say a 22 pF or 47 pF for each LED in parallel.  OF course I may be mistaken with this latter.

Gyula

[NickZ]

   Gyula:   Well, it may be that there is not enough juice to fully power the leds, but, I have provided over 100v from my crystal oscillator, and still not fully lighting the leds.   It does not seam to make much difference, if the input is 12v, 24v, or higher.  The leds are not being fully lit, and the actual brightness suffers.   I do not have the right 120v led bulb, with the metal backing. But, my series connected 10 led bulb will light, even without having the metal backing. As the led PCB all have the copper plating on the board itself. Which may not be as good as the additional aluminum backing, but works to some degree.

   All I'm saying is that there is little use able light coming from my crystal oscillator set up, for me, so far. Comparable to a single or maybe two fully lit small led bulbs worth of lumins. 
   I think that the above may be due to a less than perfect match and sync between the oscillator, and the L3 coil.  Or not?
But, I don't see that the Docs bulbs are being lit anywhere close to fully on, either.

   We need to test further the idea that the leds are what is producing their own light, from the tiny amount of input provided.As even that additional power to light the led bulbs has to come from,  somewhere, also.

[itsu]

Hi Itsu,

Thank you for doing this test.
Would like to ask that out of the double loops have you checked the current waveform in any of the single loops how they look like?  I ask this because your current probe embeds both of the loop wires simultenaously as you showed. I know the current should have the same shape (in theory) in both loops and I also think if there is some difference say in amplitude too, then it may come from the small differences in the diodes not being identical to the last mV. And very likely the current amplitude in any of the single loops is only half of the measured 2.85 mA RMS, can this be correct?  (I mean the two loop currents seem to be summed via the common series LED boards.) 

Nick, The LEDs are only taking in 2.5 V (to 2.7 V as the Doc mentioned) because the forward current flowing in the loop is only so small that it is able to bias the LEDs only that small voltage. A white LED needs about at least 3 V to 3.2 V forward voltage to give a decent brightness, this normally involves any forward current between say 10 mA and 20 mA for a single LED.
Notice that the 4 V forward voltage you wrote would already overdrive a normal white LED and kill it in a short time.  MAximum a 3.5 or 3.6 V should be involved.
Obviously, the near or close field from L3 coil is not high enough (maybe yet) to create the 3 to 3.2 V forward voltage which would involve the higher loop current hence the higher brightness, I agree with you.
I think Itsu drove the earlier single loops with DC input voltage to compare it to the measured AC loop current and he found them within ball park to have similar brightness. (If I do not recall this correctly, then Itsu surely chime in.)So simply there is still not enough RF juice to drive the loops.
Here I have to mention the Doc's 'explanation' on the LED self capacitance which would provide the current for each LED so that the brightness should come from the potential the self capacitance continuously picks up from the field and discharges it via its own LED, this may or may not be correct. To check this, you would need to connect a small value capacitor across each LEDs to see any change in brightness. The small value cap could be say a 22 pF or 47 pF for each LED in parallel.  OF course I may be mistaken with this latter.

Gyula

Gyula,

the both loop currents basically are identical and half of the total current, see screenshot below
which shows in Ref1 (R1) the total current, and in Ref2 (R2) and Ref3 (R3) the both seperate currents.

When using the oscillator instead of the FG i can get some more voltage across the leds and they get a little brighter then.

Itsu