what happens between a teslacoil the battery the incadescent bulb and the ground

[ramset]

Apologize for the intrusion !

[TeslaScientific]

Hi Teslascientific and Endlessoceans

Thank's for input

Youp what is correct ?

Ts    says that in a teslacoil the energy should  go from the ground (bottom) of the coil to the earth or else. And the tophead  cap should be calculated to prevent as much as possible the radiations or losses in order to concentrate a max of power  on the  ground part of the coil.

Eo    says that the energy irradiate from the tophead of the coil all over the place so , by touching the battery terminal with the bulb and main ground, we simply close the circuit. So far i understand  the power should comes from the top of the coil.

Both answers  seems some how contradictory or am i missing something?

Laurent

Hi woopy.

Despite what others may say, it is operating as a standard Tesla coil. The coil will have a 1/4 wave resonant potential and current distribution over it. This means that the maximum current is at the GROUND end of the coil. Maximum potential is at the FREE end of the coil. That's why the sparks come from the free end. The current is at the opposite end of the coil, 90 degrees, or 1/4 wavelength, out of phase.

https://maritime.org/doc/radio/img/fig142.jpg

Hence, when the ground end of the coil is connected back into the circuit for "feedback" due to not using a proper variable frequency oscillator, all the energy is being sent back into the circuit, so no wonder you are lighting incandescent bulbs off the battery terminals. In a similar manner is how Tesla blew up the substation at Colorado Springs, he was inadvertently sending RF back down the power line.

If you want to understand what's going on then I would advise you to simplify the whole thing and remove the unnecessarily complicated circuitry. Isolate the effect. Drive the primary with a simple high frequency AC source and the secondary will work as intended, the effect has nothing to do with the batteries or the circuit, that's what a Tesla coil is SUPPOSED to do.

It's a SINGLE wire single terminal transmission system. There is no "ground loop" or "closed circuits" through air gaps. It's exactly like the AT&T/Bell Labs video shows. The waves reflect/oscillate back and forth along the transmission line/structure, and that's why the bulb lights with one wire, not because of imaginary closed circuits. It's not necessary to form a closed circuit.

You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit.  These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves.  You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy.  By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth.  That is what I am doing.  Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method.  I am not producing radiation with my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated.  It is not radiated; it is conserved.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

[TinselKoala]

Half right, almost all wrong.

1. The feedback system of this coil does _NOT_ depend on the bottom of the secondary being connected back to the circuit, like in Kacher/Slayer circuits. The feedback comes through an antenna which is picking up the oscillating E-field produced when the secondary is in resonance. The system works even when the bottom of the secondary is disconnected from the driver circuit's negative rail and is connected to true Earth ground instead.

2. A fixed frequency oscillator will require constant tuning if the secondary is to stay in resonance while drawing sparks, powering loads, etc. This is because the actual resonant frequency of the secondary+load changes during these manipulations. A little research will show that the most successful SSTCs will either use a phaselocked loop circuit or antenna>CMOS gate>driver chip or similar circuit so that the frequency of the driver is always automatically keeping the secondary in resonance as its frequency changes due to loads, environment, etc.

3. Compare the circuit board and schematic of this coil, with what is posted above. Which is truly simpler? Count the parts. Which is smaller? Mine sits on a footprint that is 8 inches x 5 1/2 inches, half the size of a standard sheet of typing paper, not including the batteries. It's fully portable, can be easily taken out of doors, and requires no mains connection, no external signal generator, no actual earth ground.


Yes, it is working as a 1/4 wave resonator producing Voltage Rise by Standing Wave Resonance. That much, at least, is correct. Note that the primary has only 3 turns, is driven by a single mosfet switching 24 volts, and has no power-wasting resistors in the circuit.

Someone else "explained" that the effect I showed is due to power being reflected from the top capacity back into the drive circuit. The only problem with this "explanation" is that the demonstration works the same, with or without the top capacity on the secondary.

[TeslaScientific]

2. A fixed frequency oscillator will require constant tuning if the secondary is to stay in resonance while drawing sparks, powering loads, etc. This is because the actual resonant frequency of the secondary+load changes during these manipulations. A little research will show that the most successful SSTCs will either use a phaselocked loop circuit or antenna>CMOS gate>driver chip or similar circuit so that the frequency of the driver is always automatically keeping the secondary in resonance as its frequency changes due to loads, environment, etc.

It doesn't require constant tuning. It requires tuning once. Which is done deliberately to a specific frequency, and not some arbitrary frequency. That's point #1 about learning and engineering. When the coil is tuned with a sufficiently large ground capacitance, the relatively small capacitance of the load doesn't make any difference. The coil is already tuned to maximum output. There's no reason to retune it. As for loads connected directly to the coil output without such a capacitance or transmission medium, those are "experimental" conditions in which adjustments are to be expected, and it's not very difficult to press a few buttons or turn a knob and tune it to the new, temporary frequency. What's more, the primary capacitor should also need adjusting.

3. Compare the circuit board and schematic of this coil, with what is posted above. Which is truly simpler? Count the parts. Which is smaller? Mine sits on a footprint that is 8 inches x 5 1/2 inches, half the size of a standard sheet of typing paper, not including the batteries. It's fully portable, can be easily taken out of doors, and requires no mains connection, no external signal generator, no actual earth ground.

The point is the simplicity of the approach. You simply connect the primary coil to the power supply, and that's it. The coil has no interaction with any other circuitry, no feedback antennas or any unpredictable variables. Also I might point out that the circuit is simply an op amp circuit and not much could be simpler than that. It also has a modulator at the first stage to enable amplitude modulation with audio input which isn't necessary at all for its operation. You may notice that the board is in 3 sections. That's because it's a modular/3 stage amplifier, and any one stage can work alone or together. I can also remove the output resistors if I like, but I choose to match it to the primary coil impedance. But I'm not sure that it's necessary to get into a competition over output impedance.

The primary has 2 turns. Secondary 17 turns. Extra coil 100 turns.

Someone else "explained" that the effect I showed is due to power being reflected from the top capacity back into the drive circuit. The only problem with this "explanation" is that the demonstration works the same, with or without the top capacity on the secondary.

I'm sure it does work the same. But that's not quite right. A wire end is a termination. There's a change in impedance. It's an open circuit. Hence the wave reflects back from whence it came, which is back down through the coil. Of course, a wire is an efficient radiator of energy which is why they're used as radio antennas all over the place so more energy is radiated than would be if there was a large capacitance, but the coil is in resonance BECAUSE the wave is reflected and forms a standing wave distribution along the coil. If the wave wasn't reflected back down the coil then it could never resonate.

Either way, if the circuit works without the ground end of the secondary being connected back into the circuit, then that's the advisable way to use a Tesla coil since that's supposed to be the output of the coil.

So my question to TK and all of you, how can we explain this effect ?

.

[forest]

This fight will never stop ,unless somebody show that Tesla coil can be used in 2 or 3 completely different modes of operation. That is the reason people cannot replicate Tesla findings. Confusion.
Would be VERY VERY IMPORTANT to scale down TeslaScientific Tesla coil and compare the results with RF version. I do believe this is not RF exactly like Tesla said.