inertial propulsion with gyroscope

[conradelektro]

Here a thread from 2013 and 2014 where a person tried to build a space drive (without success) http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.WocPXKjiaHs


In this thread I posted photos of my own attempt as I described above. I attach two photos of the self contained little platform which was driven by a PIC-processor and a two stepper motor driver chips. It carried its own power supply (batteries). By reprogramming the PIC-processor I could try many different movements of the two arms each carrying a dead weight (brass ball and little brass plate at the end of a short arm fixed to the axle of a stepper motor). The arms were short because the two stepper motors had little torque. I needed to avoid missteps of the stepper motors in order to maintain programmed acceleration and deceleration patterns for the arms. I also tested the contraption swimming on water (on a piece of wood) and there one could clearly see that it moved only back and forth.


I built three contraptions. The first one was not self contained (needed wires to a stationary power supply and controller) and a third bigger one with strong stepper motors flinging 800 gram weights. It was fun and an absolute failure besides learning how to drive stepper motors. The shown second contraption was the best from a design point of view.


Just to show that I have been there with the usual outcome (failure). Everybody can build something that works. But it needs great skill to always build something that does not work.


Greetings, Conrad


(P.S.: I dumped the contraptions some years ago when I cleaned house, but luckily I found the photos on overunity.com)

[DrJones]

  This is very interesting work.  Thanks for the continuing videos, Laurent.


  I have a further suggestion for an experiment, and have stopped in our travels to make a quick post.
 
  Rotate your device 180-degrees, so now the "push" should be in the opposite direction.*  Now see which direction (counter-clockwise or clockwise?) the bicycle wheel turns.  Even though it will take longer (I think) to make a complete turn, the bicycle wheel should still turn.  Which direction the bike wheel rotates will tell us something![/font][/size]

[/font][/size]
*Alternatively, move the device without rotating it, to the OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BICYCLE WHEEL. [/font][/size]
--Steven Jones[/font][/size]

[conradelektro]

This thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt is very instructive. The "inventor" is spinning two gyroscopes (drilling machines) and even waves them up and down like in Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent (see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgCgrMetRsc ). It does not work, although the "inventor" wants to see something in his demonstration (but he stopped in 2014). The "inventor" exhibits the usual blindness concerning his "invention".

So, just spinning two gyroscopes (like I did with the dead weights) and even "waving" or "nodding" them up and down will not work. One seems to need that "free fall" or "free coasting of the gyroscopes" for half a circle like in Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent.

It means for me that I do not need to test "restricted" movement of gyroscopes around a full circle. I have to find a solution for the "free fall" or "free coasting" half circle.

I also suspect that only Laurent's replication works (Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent) und not the embodiment according to Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent. I see no "free fall periode" in Fig. 20 and therefore it will not work for the same reasons as the contraption in the unsuccessful thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt . It might work if the "reset cylinder 182" (see Fig. 20) can set free the gyroscope for one half circle. The embodiment of Fig. 20 also lacks the "speeding up during one half circle", which hints that the inventor never built it.

Very intriguing! It always pays to study prior work. Most of the things imaginable have already been tried by some poor soul in the past.

Greetings, Conrad

[woopy]

This thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt is very instructive. The "inventor" is spinning two gyroscopes (drilling machines) and even waves them up and down like in Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent (see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgCgrMetRsc ). It does not work, although the "inventor" wants to see something in his demonstration (but he stopped in 2014). The "inventor" exhibits the usual blindness concerning his "invention".

So, just spinning two gyroscopes (like I did with the dead weights) and even "waving" or "nodding" them up and down will not work. One seems to need that "free fall" or "free coasting of the gyroscopes" for half a circle like in Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent.

It means for me that I do not need to test "restricted" movement of gyroscopes around a full circle. I have to find a solution for the "free fall" or "free coasting" half circle.

I also suspect that only Laurent's replication works (Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent) und not the embodiment according to Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent. I see no "free fall periode" in Fig. 20 and therefore it will not work for the same reasons as the contraption in the unsuccessful thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt . It might work if the "reset cylinder 182" (see Fig. 20) can set free the gyroscope for one half circle. The embodiment of Fig. 20 also lacks the "speeding up during one half circle", which hints that the inventor never built it.

Very intriguing! It always pays to study prior work. Most of the things imaginable have already been tried by some poor soul in the past.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi conrad

This experiment is one of the most brain shaking machine.

Thank's very much for your interest.

I have made a rapid tour on the link you mention and i tried to figure out the analogy with Fig 20 of the fiala's patent. On the experiment of M.drive i don't see the precise timing of the gyros they seem to go back and forth quite heratically. Now if you look at the graph on fig 29 of fiala's patent, it seems clear that there is first a motorization of the rotation of the device on half a turn, which induces precession of the gyro which can freely raise up 60 degrees. Then the  rotation's motorization stops, and the piston (182)  push down the gyros  and this pushdown is the swing which should motorize up the whole device. What is not clear to me is if when the rotation's motorisation stops, if the vertical main shaft also stops or if it is free to spin during the down push. If it is free to spin, the down push should also exhibit an axial precession and perhaps diminish the power of the down swing but i dono.
M. Fiala speak also of stepper motor for this fig 20 setup. So perhaps you can imagine a programation for that purpose. I am personnally thinking to use 180 degree servo with one way bearing for the main shaft (if it is free to spin after its motorization) and another 180 deg servo for the vertical up and down movement. But it will not be an easy task for sure. And as you said some good studying before doing is a must.

To Steven

Thank's for the proposal, i will do.

Just for info, i made a small reflection this night:

when the device is on a flat floor and mounted on wheels (ball bearing) it speed up almost instantly, i mean at the first rotation (swing) it goes forward. But on the suspended wheel it need a very long time to speed up (some minutes from the zero speed start point).

So i think that the answer is that the suspended wheel (with 3 lines) plus a vertical monotoron, can woble in all direction and this wobling make the "floor of the wheel" somehow "wavy"
.
So when the device is on a flat hard floor,  the swing of the gyro (when the traction wheel is in contact with the traction ring) is perfectly horizontal all along the 180 derees and the gyro does not precess at all, so the swing is very efficient .

But on the suspended wheel, the floor is "wavy" and the swing is not perfectly horizontal all along the 180 degrees, so the gyro can slightly precess and , if the theory of m. Fiala is right, it loses some angular momentum, so the swing is not very efficient.

So i will redo completely the experiment with 4 lines  and no monotoron to max stabilise the suspended wheel and see if the gyro accelerate better, and then try all your suggestions.

Fascinating gyros !

Laurent

[conradelektro]

@Laurent: I will read more carefully in the Fiala patent about the Fig. 20 type embodiment, may be there is more information in the many pages of the patent.

I think I found a solution for building a Fig. 1 embodiment (like your replication) with a stepper motor and no tracks. I will make drawings for discussion prior to implementation.

The Adafruit motor shield for the Arduino is in the mail. It should open up many options.

But everything is a lot of work and will take time.

A one way bearing on a servo is a good idea. If you drive a 360° servo with a microprocessor you can reduce its turning speed after 180° to let the gyroscope "fly freely" for the other half circle. At the end of the circle (at 0°=360°) you catch up with the servo to push again for 180°. But you have to limit the nodding of the gyroscope again with some rails. Wait for my drawing (a few days), may be it can be done with a servo as well. I just do not like servos, but this is a personal choice. A stepper motor is best for trying many strange movements, but it has to be done with a microprocessor (a program). An Arduino with motor shield is a overkill, but so what, it is not expensive and can be programmed easily with a PC.

Laurent, could you tell me which DC motor and which speed control you use for the gyroscope shown in your videos. Your gyroscope seems to work well and I could just copy it from you (including the figet spinner rings).

Greetings, Conrad