12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[Merg]

I haven't read this entire thread, but does anyone have any ideas on how to close the loop MECHANICALLY for proof of concept?

Closing the loop mechanically would not be what we are looking for - it seems it is not easy task or maybe impossible. Since you are not familiar with the whole discussion, I will recommend you to read this paper where author has nicely described what were the obstacles to close the loop in that way...

Jovan Marjanovic - Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

[Merg]

This quote tells everything

"This is technically simple, but it should not be approached lightly. - Veljko Milkovic"

[Nabo00o]

http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/thedualhydraulicoscillator

http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1.jpg/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1-full;init:.jpg

Merg, as I told Techstuf, I believe I have found an extremely simple and efficient way to close the loop mechanically, but you have to be able to open your mind a bit for new versions of the classical design.


Primarily, I want to do it with water! Yes that's right, or of course it could be oil, as long as it is thin.
I am using the same forces as in the pendulum: Input power goes into angular acceleration, while output power comes from the centrifugal force it creates. In this setup the centrifugally pressurized water is used to directly accelerate the rotor by functioning as jets. This will point in opposite direction of the rotation, and thus push it faster.  The whole idea really came to me when I was reading a post on the energetic forum by Ted Evert, so it is primarily his design.

Start power can either by supplied by rotating it around fast enough by a motor, or if it is a small prototype, the power of water-pressure should be enough.

Julian

[Cloxxki]

Julian,
Although I fail to see the connection (OK, you're using CF), I totally like it and Ted's work on the field I've read.
Seems you'll be looking for a jet nozzle speed greater than the jet's velocity air speed spinning around the axis, right? I wonder if that's possible, when mass moving outward also slows the rotor down. Plus the water needs to be pumped upwards first? If it's not a self running, but more efficient that a regular gravity water turbine, that will be fine accomplishment for me as well. More interesting to watch also.
What if a tall column of water could feed this? All the pressure you want, before you even add spin.
Anyway, hope you'll get it to spin soon!

[Nabo00o]

This idea is really interesting I'll tell you that

But first of all (and I got the same question from Ted Evert btw) it is in every way related to the 2-stage oscillator. What is the biggest characteristic of the 2-stage oscillator? The more you load it, the less you drain its stored kinetic energy. If there is no load what-so-ever it will loose all the energy instantly, try to imagine that with pendulum and you'll see. Also if there is infinite resistance (full load) then there will be no loss what-so-ever (if we look away from minor friction and such).

Now that same thing will happen with the 2-stage hydraulic oscillator 
If no water is let out at all, it will be just as if there was no movement of the pendulum pivot at all, and thus only minor losses. If you allow more and more water out however, there will be more water sucked in which needs to be angularly accelerated, and this is what drains its kinetic energy.
And again it is only displacement and not force that drains it, so you could say that there is two separate systems which by changing both's parameters are powering and draining each other.

But the "secret" is that it is done in the 2-stage fashion, which opens for the possibility of changing the amount of work needed to drive one system, which then indirectly powers the second one.


About the pumping. Since this will be spinning, or when it eventually is rotated around, centrifugal force will both force the water out at its periphery, and because this water is forced out a huge under-pressure will be created in the center, and this will suck water with great power, depending of the speed of course.

Also one last thing. It is not the speed against its surrounding environment which is important to the water jets, but only their relative speed against the speed of the rotating rotor. Even if it may seem slow from our perspective it will have great speed away from the rotor 


But best of all the whole thing is very easy to put together, and epoxy is great because it is superhuman strong, but doesn't require to be welded (and could thus rust).

Julian