12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[Nabo00o]

Could you please explain what an Ecklin Generator is?  Did some quick google searches and all I'm getting is that this is yet another OU device in itself which nobody has ever conclusively tested.

That's far from the truth, but it does already have a tread here I believe.
Anyway, it is a type of generator that is not slowed down by lenz's law. It uses ferromagnetic "slugs" to alter the field path. It does have some things in common with the MEG, expect that it is driven mechanically. I have actually tried the concept my self on the SSG motor I got in the garage.
It will generate a lot of mechanical motion on a plate, but the motor itself will not loose speed or draw any more current.

But anyway, that's just for those who actually want to build something, and want it to work even better. Combining several of these technologies can have a lot of merit. Just replace the old inefficient conversion stages with new technologies that we know are better.

Julian

[Charlie_V]

I didn't know what it was either but I looked it up.  It is a generator that uses a shield to cut the magnetic lines of flux so that the permanent magnet and coil can remain stationary.  The claim is that lenz's law is negated and it operates in over unity. 

However, I've investigated these type generators and even built them (and redesigned them some as well).  Lenz law is not negated, it is still present but in a different way.  The shielding material used to cut the flux will exhibit the opposite polarity of the magnet.  As the shield approaches, the coils see a decreasing field and generates an opposite polarity to the magnet.  This polarity is the SAME polarity as the shield, so it repels the shield producing a drag which is more or less countered by the pull of the magnet (so basically neutralized if not a little over powered by the magnet).  This drag becomes intensified as the shield moves out of the field because the coil then sees an increasing flux and generates the same polarity as the magnet, which since the shield has the opposite pole, will get twice the pull force as the shield tries to leave.  So whatever gain you get from the shield approach is very quickly drained by the exit.  Sorry if that is hard to follow but in a nut shell that is why shielding does not work and I abandoned it a long time ago. 

Generator efficiency is usually a product of the speed (most motors have higher efficiency at some optimum speed as well).  But generally an electric generator (atleast the conventional kind), well built, can be 80-90% efficient.  That is 80 to 90% of the mechanical energy applied is converted to electricity.  Generators using Halbach arrays (like the one invented by Dr. Halbach) is claimed at achieving 99% efficiency which is an amazing claim (and probably a little exaggerated).  Needless to say you can't buy them - they are very costly to make since you need specially made magnets that can be stacked to form a Halbach ring.  In fact, the cost of a generator is usually what limits its efficiency.  They could make 99% efficient generators easy but they would cost so much, and the savings in energy so small, they usually don't strive for such high efficiencies. 

Unfortunately, economics is the driving force as to how efficient our devices are made.  Since oil is becoming harder to find, a few percentage increase in efficiency over the lifetime of a device can make a big savings difference.  Hence the recent crazy for higher efficiency.

[Nabo00o]

Hmm, I feel I must reply to some of your statements.

First of all, I didn't say that Lenz's law was negated, I said that it didn't slow the rotor down.
Now, your example with the generator coil is not really accurate. If it was the north pole from the permanent magnet, which the iron slug was inducing into the coil, the coil would (if it generated current) induce the same magnetic field against the slug. This means two norths. The things is, two norths will not slow down the slug, they will instead attract it into the middle. 

You can test this by setting up two magnets with both norths facing each other, and then approach them with a metal plate in between. The plate will be pulled inside, and the magnets (if were restricted by springs), would go closer together.

The same thing will happen when the slug leaves, and this means that the slug will be decelerated by the same amount which it is accelerated. Whether you are making a lot of current or not, the opposing (but attractive) magnetic field on the way out will be just as strong as one the way in.

And as I said, the result will be a generator without lenz's law slowing it down.
I do not know what kind of tests you have done, but I know about someone who have maid a very successful unit (after having tried 3 different design I might add).


What I hope you could understand which is even simpler is a pure mechanical design.
If you have those two magnets with the north facing each other, a rotor with iron plates attached going through the field, would cause the magnets to contract and then expand outward again.
This is because the two opposing fields are polarizing the plate, and thus attract themself to it.
This does also cause the plate to be pulled in. If we then want to remove the plate, we need the same level of energy as what we got from inserting it, but the movement from both magnets are completely for free and could power lots of machinery, and its seems that some are already doing that.

Just wanted to mention this because it is a lot easier to understand it when it is two magnets, instead of one magnet and one coil. But the coil will always generate the same field when current is flowing.

If you don't believe me, I really advice you to try the experiment I mentioned. Try it with two neodymiums, which can really give you a lot of power, and then compare it with energy used to slide the metal through 

Julian

[TechStuf]

Anybody can prove "free" energy.  Kids in elementary school can do it.


Take a bike wheel, mount 12 NdFeB magnets equidistant on one side of rim, mount the wheel horizontally.  Position a plastic egg or other non ferrous container wrapped with magnet wire which ends are connected to an LED, above the rim.   (Place a small NEO magnet inside. )  Place the container an inch or two above the rim, you can easily work out the optimum distance as you go.  Use a cordless electric drill to spin up the bike wheel to a repeatedly consistent speed, and measure spin duration by itself.  Now, with the coil/light combo situated at optimum distance, measure spin duration.  Notice how it lasts just as long....sometimes LONGER.  Where is the energy to power the LED coming from?

The answer lies in the fact that torque/momentum can be generated by spinning a magnet within it's own radius, perhaps slightly larger, without causing a net drag on the system.  The torque generated by two magnets passing while in the correct orientation, can be made to surpass the energy required to initiate and sustain the action.


Myriad ways exist, to force couple to the 'wheelwork of nature'.



TS

[Charlie_V]

Now, your example with the generator coil is not really accurate. If it was the north pole from the permanent magnet, which the iron slug was inducing into the coil, the coil would (if it generated current) induce the same magnetic field against the slug. This means two norths. The things is, two norths will not slow down the slug, they will instead attract it into the middle.

Assuming the coil is loaded so current can flow, as the slug approaches between the coil and the north magnet, the slug will magnetically orient to a south pole (hence it is attracted to the magnet).  The coil will see a decreasing north pole flux because the magnet's flux is rerouting into the slug.  The coil responds to a decreasing north pole by producing a south pole.  The slug is also a south pole because it was first oriented this way to make the change that the coil sees.  Thus the coil reacts on the slug to slow it down.  Only, this force gets retarded because the magnet is usually stronger than the magnetic field of the coil.  At the best the attractive nature of the slug to the magnet is completely neutralized by the coil.  As the slug leaves, less flux will pass through the slug and more will pass through the coil.  The coil thus sees an increasing north pole.  Its response is to develop a north pole of its own.  The combine north pole of the magnet and the coil act on the slug (still being a south pole) and restrict it from leaving, slowing it down.  I have documented this effect very well. 

You can test this by setting up two magnets with both norths facing each other, and then approach them with a metal plate in between. The plate will be pulled inside, and the magnets (if were restricted by springs), would go closer together.

This is not the same experiment as described above because the coil (which has been replaced by one of the magnets as a test) reverses in polarity as the slug leaves.  To more accurately display how the coil will function, the two magnets must start in attractive mode (north to south) as the slug approaches, then be placed in a repulsion mode (north to north) as the slug leaves.  There will be virtually no force pulling the slug in while the magnets are in attraction mode but there will be twice the force to pull it out when they are in repulsion mode. 

Now, the experiment you suggested where two magnets are in opposition is an interesting experiment which I think is worth merit onto its own.  Two magnets suspended by springs with a slug moving between them.  They will move closer because they become attracted to the slug but the slug saturates and their own repulsion force takes hold so they equally move some distance inward.  In this situation, the same force to move into the field is equal to the force required to move out of the field just like you said - AS LONG AS the magnets are free to move in and out.  IF the magnets are not allowed to move, you'll notice it takes less force to move the slug when the magnets are farther apart than when they are closer to the slug.  So again loading the magnets to produce electricity will still cause a drag since the load will restrict the magnets from coming together right away and delay their separation.  BUT, there might be more output than what it takes to move the slug so it might be worth looking into - on another thread of course.

Sorry I don't want to talk about this anymore on this thread since its not directly related to the mechanical oscillator.