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Overunity Machines Forum



12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

Started by hartiberlin, November 30, 2006, 06:11:41 PM

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0 Members and 33 Guests are viewing this topic.

kolbacict

The difference is that in the version with two pendulums, it is possible to swing them by pushing one away from the other.
Without using a fixed support ...

lancaIV

Quote from: Floor on August 14, 2021, 09:09:12 AM
Good question

Modified post.

In the simplest scenario to analyze, where in...
1. Both pendulums are identical.
2. The pendulum actions are 180 deg. out from one another.
3. The input power applied to each of the pendulums is the same.
4. The timing of the input applied to each pendulum is the same.

Input power would double and output power would also double ?
There fore the input to output power ratio would remain the same ?

   PS
  I was too quick to answer...
  This would be essentially the same as using a heavier pendulum bob.
          and
  Change in the mechanical ratios within the device, (the lever length and/ or
  pendulum length and/or  pendulum mass and/or lever counter weight mass
  also changes the efficiency.

  Other desirable qualities of the device may include, non-jamming power
  transmission and ease of use / good ergonomics.

  In my (recent) opinion and my observations of what could entail an O.U. device,
  at least one element of a device's actions must approach an input value of
  zero energy.  Two or more non O.U. events cannot combine into an O.U. event ?



                                       cw and ccw  coupling ?



https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=4464095A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19840807&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
With such arrangement as described above, the internal gear and the planetary gears can be rotated in opposite directions but at the same rotational speed, so that as compared with the conventional hydraulic turbine in which the internal gear is held stationary the rotational speed of the pinion shaft can be almost doubled. In contrast with the conventional turbine with a single bladed rotor which is rotatable only in one direction, turbine rotors which are rotated in the opposite directions are mounted alternately on the common shaft so that a helical flow of a fluid through them can be eliminated. Consequently highly efficient power conversion can be ensured.

when speed will become doubled = generator production maximized by ....%  ?

similar planetary gear arrangement :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=22&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20020411&CC=DE&NR=19954908A1&KC=A1



Floor

@ kolbacict / LankaIV

Interesting variations..

The input energy source (electric cell) could be contained within either, the pendulum or
the lever.

That design would split the energy between each pendulum.
1/2 to each pendulum ?

Given that the total input energy is remaining the same as if using a single pendulum
of a mass equal to the two pendulums, the energy potential of the two pendulums
(downward) would be the same potential as a single pendulum which has a mass
equal to the two pendulums combined.

This all gets complex when one considers that the arc of the pendulum swing , can at points
in time, align with the arc of the lever's motion, there fore either increasing, or decreasing
(aligning with + or -) the arc of the pendulum. 

One can easily see why the tuning of  the physical elements as well as timing the motions
will effect the mechanical resonance / force cancellation / force combining and there fore
the efficiency of the energy transmission from pendulum to lever.

However, neither force neutralization nor force combining increases the total energy present
within the system.  They will however effect the efficiency of the transmission from the
pendulum to the lever.

The difference between this mechanical energy system and say, for example, a permanent
magnet system is that its energy (permanent magnet system) comes from inside the system.

Permanent magnets contain energy in and of their self, except that input (to reset positions)
and out put are mutually cancelling. No net energy =  no energy. And so they / their "energy"
are /  is considered as  "conservative".   Unless that is, one can rest magnet positions
with out expending energy equal or > than the "output" energy.

   PS
    If one could lift the pendulum without expending as much energy as when it falls
    then...

kolbacict

QuoteIf one could lift the pendulum without expending as much energy as when it falls
push the pendulums away from one another below when they have maximum speed (maximum kinetic energy).   The Oberth effect. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect

lancaIV

Quote from: kolbacict on August 14, 2021, 02:31:31 PM
push the pendulums away from one another below when they have maximum speed (maximum kinetic energy).   The Oberth effect. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect


Explanation in terms of momentum and kinetic energy


A rocket works by transferring momentum to its propellant.[3] At a fixed exhaust velocity, this will be a fixed amount of momentum per unit of propellant.[4] For a given mass of rocket (including remaining propellant), this implies a fixed change in velocity per unit of propellant.


Because kinetic energy equals mv2/2, this change in velocity imparts a greater increase in kinetic energy at a high velocity than it would at a low velocity. For example, considering a 2 kg rocket:


at 1 m/s, adding 1 m/s increases the kinetic energy from 1 J to 4 J, for a gain of 3 J;
at 10 m/s, starting with a kinetic energy of 100 J, the rocket ends with 121 J, for a net gain of 21 J.
This greater change in kinetic energy can then carry the rocket higher in the gravity well than if the propellant were burned at a lower speed.


For Your Gedanken-Experiment : 1m/s moving pendulum ? pendel length  ? pendel weight ?


An other " pendeling/balancing" principle :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cradle