12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[norman6538]

I absolutely agree. Energy is "bouncing" back and forth just like energy is "bouncing" back and forth between a parallell connection between a coil and a capacitor.
As soon as you load it with a resistance, the phase shift between current and voltage decrease and the oscillation will stop. The very same thing happens in a mechanical system with a weight (inductance in a coil) and the suspension (capacitance in a capacitor).


Vidar

The Tesal coil RLC circuit fires the spark plugs in our autos and thus  does it "recycles" the magnetic
field back and forth between the capacitor and thus makes a longer lasting spark so that a better fuel burn is achieved. - Thank you Nikola. It works because what you want is a spark
and that does not take any power out. If you take part of the power out then the spark
gets weaker.  Too bad we can't exploit this to get something else we want - perhaps the
joule thief circuits do some of this with the leds.....Got any other useful ideas on how
to apply this to what we need?

Norman

[Low-Q]

The Tesal coil RLC circuit fires the spark plugs in our autos and thus  does it "recycles" the magnetic
field back and forth between the capacitor and thus makes a longer lasting spark so that a better fuel burn is achieved. - Thank you Nikola. It works because what you want is a spark
and that does not take any power out. If you take part of the power out then the spark
gets weaker.  Too bad we can't exploit this to get something else we want - perhaps the
joule thief circuits do some of this with the leds.....Got any other useful ideas on how
to apply this to what we need?

Norman

A spark is a conductive path through the air. It discharge the powersupply which made the spark possible.
The spark occours due to the collapse of the magnetic field around a coil. This system is called inductive discharge ignition.


Capacitors discharge ignition is mainly used in small engines. A system who Tesla invented (I think), but also involve a coil.
Today a thyristor is controlling the discharge (Old engines use a mechanical switch). The capacitor is charged to a high voltage, and suddenly discharges over a coil - a spike of voltage fed into the coils primary winding, where the secondary coil (with much more windings) make it possible for a spark to occour.


The oscillation system you mention does not last for long, and the conductive spark will empty the energy source which must be charged again before the next cycle. It does for sure take power out. You cannot make a spark without energy input - or maybe I misunderstood you.


Any Joule Thief device will "steal" energy out of a system. These simple electronic circuits use the collapse of a coils magnetic field to boost voltge, but that will drain more current from the source. The efficiency are known to be high, but not higher than 100%. So the energy output is allways lower than the energy input. These devices are also used in cheap powersupplies, also called Buck Converters, to deliver higher voltage than the source can deliver. On the expense of lower output current, and higher input current. The product of voltage and current (Measured in Watt) at both sides are allways lower at the output. I use a Buck Converter to boost voltage from a car battery up to about 25V. It powers LEDs for auxiliary lights on my car. The current through these 8x LEDs in series is about 3A, and the current input to the converter is about 6A. 13V x 6A = 78W draw from the battery, 3A x 25V = 75W to the LEDs. Efficiency is then as high as 96%. Surprisingly high for a Deal Extreme converter for a few dollars.


Vidar

[Paul-R]

As soon as you load it with a resistance, the phase shift between current and voltage decrease and the oscillation will stop. The very same thing happens in a mechanical system with a weight (inductance in a coil) and the suspension (capacitance in a capacitor).

Very interesting metaphor.

What would it mean mechanically if the electrical metaphor were to be extended into the world of reactive power (and the presumed OU benefits) ?

[norman6538]

Low-q  said
" The spark occours due to the collapse of the magnetic field around a coil."
yes but it sloshes back and forthe between the cap and coil numerous times
till is wanes down like a child on a swing and that is why the spark looks brighter
than one without the capacitor......and thus burns the fuel more completely..


The cap went bad in my father's car one time and it ran but had little power
till the cap was replaced and then it ran with full power because it had a
more complete burn.

So if what you wanted was a lot of light that that spark made then to get more
light the recycling would work but what we want is usually mechanical or
electrical power so the RLC circuit does not get us what we want cause it
stops recycling when you take power out.


Norman

[Low-Q]

Very interesting metaphor.

What would it mean mechanically if the electrical metaphor were to be extended into the world of reactive power (and the presumed OU benefits) ?

If I understand your question correctly, a mechanical oscillation system that is loaded, will cause lag in the mechanical movement of the weight.
Imagine you want a mass and its suspension oscillate in syrup. The mass and the suspension is the same, but the syrup will resist a compressed or stretched suspension to move the weight through it. It cause a delay in the weights movement in both directions and therfor limit the amplitude, or how far the weight travels in each direction. Another thing that happens is that the resonance frequency drops. Of course energy is spent and taken from the oscillation, but the result is what you can imagine. Hard to sustain oscillation when there is a resistor in the system.


In a lossless suspension/weight system, the compression of the suspension occours at the same time as the weight approach the suspension to compress it. In syrup the weights movement will more or less follow the force in the suspension, making it almost impossible to detect a resonance at all - hence less phase shift.


Reactive power poses no load and can not be converted to do work.


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