Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

[gotoluc]

I received the below private message from MileHigh which I'm posting since it's content is participative.
@MileHigh, I think you can post in this topic but your post would only be visible once I approve them and could end up not being seen. So you can PM me and I'll post what is informative or constructive.

From MH
Listener191 put up a hand sketch in post #458 and better drawing in post #465 that shows the flux cancellation problems with overlapping north-south contiguous sets of 5+5 coils and then he proposes a "solution" by separating the north and south sets of coils far apart so that they don't "interfere" with each other.

But the problem is that with even the separation you still get massive amounts of flux cancellation.

Listener in his new diagram thinks a 3-slot pitch coil configuration looks like this:

NNN
_NNN
__NNN

And he thinks that that all looks "additive" and solves the flux cancellation problem.

But the reality is that this is false.

Let's look at a single 3-slot pitch coil and a single 5-slot pitch coil:

Do they look like this?

_NNN_
_NNNNN_

The answer is NO, they look like this:

...SSSSSNNNSSSSS...
...SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS...

On either side of each "north" coil you have SOUTH.   And that will cancel out some of the flux on both sides.

So here is what a 5-slot pitch "solution" looks like just for one polarity:

SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
_SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
__SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
___SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
____SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS

Then on top of that, what about all of the net flux generated in the stator that is not lined up with the stationary rotor?

It doesn't really have a nice return path to complete the flux loop, does it?  On either side of the coils in the stator there is air, and air sucks for conducting the magnetic flux.  The vast majority of the flux is going to complete the loop inside the metal of the stator itself.  That means some of the flux is not going to be "nice" and it is going to "punch though" the stator in the opposite direction that you think it should be going in because it has to loop back around the coil somehow.  And that means even more flux cancellation will be taking place because there is no proper magnetic circuit to channel the flux in a proper loop.

It's a double-whammy mess.

[listener192]

I received the below private message from MileHigh which I'm posting since it's content is participative.
@MileHigh, I think you can post in this topic but your post would only be visible once I approve it and could end up not being seen. So you can PM me and I'll post what is informative or constructive.

From MH
Listener191 put up a hand sketch in post #458 and better drawing in post #465 that shows the flux cancellation problems with overlapping north-south contiguous sets of 5+5 coils and then he proposes a "solution" by separating the north and south sets of coils far apart so that they don't "interfere" with each other.

But the problem is that with even the separation you still get massive amounts of flux cancellation.

Listener in his new diagram thinks a 3-slot pitch coil configuration looks like this:

NNN
_NNN
__NNN

And he thinks that that all looks "additive" and solves the flux cancellation problem.

But the reality is that this is false.

Let's look at a single 3-slot pitch coil and a single 5-slot pitch coil:

Do they look like this?

_NNN_
_NNNNN_

The answer is NO, they look like this:

...SSSSSNNNSSSSS...
...SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS...

On either side of each "north" coil you have SOUTH.   And that will cancel out some of the flux on both sides.

So here is what a 5-slot pitch "solution" looks like just for one polarity:

SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
_SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
__SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
___SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS
____SSSSSNNNNNSSSSS

Then on top of that, what about all of the net flux generated in the stator that is not lined up with the stationary rotor?

It doesn't really have a nice return path to complete the flux loop, does it?  On either side of the coils in the stator there is air, and air sucks for conducting the magnetic flux.  The vast majority of the flux is going to complete the loop inside the metal of the stator itself.  That means some of the flux is not going to be "nice" and it is going to "punch though" the stator in the opposite direction that you think it should be going in because it has to loop back around the coil somehow.  And that means even more flux cancellation will be taking place because there is no proper magnetic circuit to channel the flux in a proper loop.

It's a double-whammy mess.

Yes he is correct about the stator poles coupling to the back stator either side of the pole group however, this situation changes when the rotor is in registration with a pole as the rotor then offers a lower reluctance path across to the opposite polarity pole.

L192

[ARTMOSART]

The below are two new messages I received from Pierre after he viewed my last French video.
Fr.  Ci-dessous son deux nouveaux messages que jai reçus de Pierre après avoir vu ma dernière vidéo française.

Yes, I know that 6 pole without current variation does not give much but my device has a variation of current. Congratulations you just discovered one of my secret. There still remains more to discover, then you will see the performance I achieved. And yes, there is really 6 field that rotate, except, there really is a variation which you need to know how to do so you can vary the coils. It may be possible that your configuration can achieve it but I'm not sure of your configuration, you will need to experiment. One thing is sure, if you had 5 pole it will not work. You see, you start to find solutions to the problems.

Sorry, I had left you a quick message since I was not home. Yes you can make a fluctuation between the field while having 6 magnetic field and can be all done in series. I was able to do it it. There are several ways to do it and you could have done it with only 2 pole in series, 1 north and 1 south with all coils on.
I would of needed to considerably increased the speed but with relays it is not possible. You can do it as you want but it is one of the conditions to get overunity.
You still have one solution to find but the basis is to have a good rotation of the field, a north at one end of the rotor and a south to the other side and a variation of current if you want a maximum of amperage and it's better kept all the coils in series in this configuration but you really are on the right track. Now I understand why you did not have much output with the program that I saw. Everything is explainable. Have a good day

Fr.  Oui, je sait que 6 pole sans variation de courant ne donne pas grand chose, mais moi j'ai une variation de courant. Félicitations tu vient de découvrir un de mes secret. Il en reste encore un peut  a devouvrir et tu va avoir le performance que j'ai fait. Mais oui, il y a vraiment 6 champ qui tourne sauf qu'il y a bien une variation, suffit de savoir comment faire pour varier les bobines. Il se peut que ta configuration faisse le travail mais je ne suis pas sure de ta configuration, tu peut experimenter. Une chose est sûre, si tu avait 5 pole cela ne fonctionnera pas tu voit, tu commence à trouver des solution au problème.

Fr.  Bon désolé, je t'ai laisser un message rapidement mais je n'était pas chez moi. Oui tu peut faire une fluctuation entre les champ en ayant 6 champ magnétique et tu peut faire toute en série. Je l'ai fait. Il y a plusieurs façon de faire et tu aurait pu faire avec seulement 2 pole en série 1 nord et 1 sud et toute les bobine allumée.
J'aurais du considérablement augmenté la vitesse, mais avec des relais ce n'était pas possible. Tu peut le faire comme tu le veut mais c'est l'une des condition pour faire un overunity.
Il te reste qu'une solution a trouver, mais la base est de bien faire tourner le champ, un nord a une extrémité du rotor et un sud a l'autre coté et une variation de courant si tu veut un maximum d'ampérage et vaut mieux resté en série pour toute les bobine dans cette configuration mais tu est vraiment sur la bonne voie. Maintenant je comprend pourquoi tu n'avait pas grand chose a la sortie avec le program que j'ai vue. Tout s'explique.  bonne journée

Hi,
FR/
variation du flux magnétique ?
je pense qu'il y'a déjà une variation du flux du au fait de cour circuiter 1/5 bobine soit 20%. c'est peut être pas suffisant et qu'il
faudrait simplement en courcircuiter  2 à 3 bobine à la fois ca va permettre une augmentation du courant dans les autres bobines
qu'en penser vous ?

cordialement ,Mosha

ENvariation of the magnetic flux? I think there is already a variation in the flow of the fact of running circuit 1/5 coil or 20%. it may not be enough and we should simply short  2 to 3 coil at a time it will allow an increase in the current in the other coils
what do you think?

[listener192]

Hello, I am following this thread from the beginning. I was very impressed by Pierre generator. Very professional thread, all which are involved here have a lot of experience in these issues.
All my respect to Luc, his prototype is very impressive and expensive.
I am not an expert, not even a professional, I am more like an amator.
I want share with my point of view, because I know that if you focus too much to one idea, you miss other solutions.
From my point of amator view, there no 30/36 coils energized all time, as you Luc mentioned in the last video. I believe that only the coils which are energized are exactly the coils where the LEDs are on. When led is off, the coils not energized anymore, allowing bemf to go to caps. If all coils are energized, how bemf can take place?
I believe like this: all the time is on three coils from stator and Pierre made the "rotor" with a certain number of turns like in a normal transformer. So all the time only 3 coils are inducing the current to the rotor.
Again, I am just an amator, please ignore if this is wrong.

Cheers!
Alex

Hi Alex,

There is a rotary pattern of poles with a distributed  amplitude of MMF however, you are correct, I have measured no coil recovery current from any of the half bridges in operation, as no coil actually turns off. We are missing something that Pierre has not shared.

Regards

L192

[listener192]

The below are two new messages I received from Pierre after he viewed my last French video.
Fr.  Ci-dessous son deux nouveaux messages que jai reçus de Pierre après avoir vu ma dernière vidéo française.

Yes, I know that 6 pole without current variation does not give much but my device has a variation of current. Congratulations you just discovered one of my secret. There still remains more to discover, then you will see the performance I achieved. And yes, there is really 6 field that rotate, except, there really is a variation which you need to know how to do so you can vary the coils. It may be possible that your configuration can achieve it but I'm not sure of your configuration, you will need to experiment. One thing is sure, if you had 5 pole it will not work. You see, you start to find solutions to the problems.

Sorry, I had left you a quick message since I was not home. Yes you can make a fluctuation between the field while having 6 magnetic field and can be all done in series. I was able to do it it. There are several ways to do it and you could have done it with only 2 pole in series, 1 north and 1 south with all coils on.
I would of needed to considerably increased the speed but with relays it is not possible. You can do it as you want but it is one of the conditions to get overunity.
You still have one solution to find but the basis is to have a good rotation of the field, a north at one end of the rotor and a south to the other side and a variation of current if you want a maximum of amperage and it's better kept all the coils in series in this configuration but you really are on the right track. Now I understand why you did not have much output with the program that I saw. Everything is explainable. Have a good day

Fr.  Oui, je sait que 6 pole sans variation de courant ne donne pas grand chose, mais moi j'ai une variation de courant. Félicitations tu vient de découvrir un de mes secret. Il en reste encore un peut  a devouvrir et tu va avoir le performance que j'ai fait. Mais oui, il y a vraiment 6 champ qui tourne sauf qu'il y a bien une variation, suffit de savoir comment faire pour varier les bobines. Il se peut que ta configuration faisse le travail mais je ne suis pas sure de ta configuration, tu peut experimenter. Une chose est sûre, si tu avait 5 pole cela ne fonctionnera pas tu voit, tu commence à trouver des solution au problème.

Fr.  Bon désolé, je t'ai laisser un message rapidement mais je n'était pas chez moi. Oui tu peut faire une fluctuation entre les champ en ayant 6 champ magnétique et tu peut faire toute en série. Je l'ai fait. Il y a plusieurs façon de faire et tu aurait pu faire avec seulement 2 pole en série 1 nord et 1 sud et toute les bobine allumée.
J'aurais du considérablement augmenté la vitesse, mais avec des relais ce n'était pas possible. Tu peut le faire comme tu le veut mais c'est l'une des condition pour faire un overunity.
Il te reste qu'une solution a trouver, mais la base est de bien faire tourner le champ, un nord a une extrémité du rotor et un sud a l'autre coté et une variation de courant si tu veut un maximum d'ampérage et vaut mieux resté en série pour toute les bobine dans cette configuration mais tu est vraiment sur la bonne voie. Maintenant je comprend pourquoi tu n'avait pas grand chose a la sortie avec le program que j'ai vue. Tout s'explique.  bonne journée

The easiest way to vary the current through all of the coils is with PWM.

We are generating a travelling wave via the rotating poles lets say at 10Hz, then via PWM we superimpose 60Hz on top of the 10Hz wave?



L192