Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

[jerdee]

We are reviewing Pierre's newest hints and today Jerdee is writing several program variation to observe some finer differences. I will post videos of the tests once I have them. One of the tests will be looking at full H-Bridge AC output which we already know from the previous L298M tests helps the output.   

With Pierre new hint of coil isolation we are considering the extra set of 36 diodes and relays may be used full AC input?... can you please have a look at that possibility and let us know what you think.

I believe we are having major issues with cutting the flux lines on our armature due to our inefficient fields.  This has to be our problem.  We've done enough work with high amps and plenty enough voltage on these windings...to the point of cooking the enamel.  You see, when driving 5 coils in series, you only have the middle three that are effectively working.  This is only 60% of the 5 coils that are doing anything important.  This is NOT good. 
With a 36 poles, you have much more effective field. 

It all comes down to creating a stronger field to cut the armature windings.  Isolated coils is the answer!!!

When you isolate the coils, you have to rethink switching.  This is why you need FULL A/C mode and not just the half bridges.  So  the switching is more involved, but good news, we've already done this test from the earlier bridges.  This method works!!!  We just didn't isolate the coils. 

Pierre is clearly moving forward with NOT tying the coils together in series!  This is NOT needed.  You cancel the fields at the end of the 5 coils.  Or 6 on a 36 poles.   You want the strongest field presented to the armature without loss.  The code is more complicated, but not that much.   I simply export switch states from excel.  It's quite efficient really.   Believe, after a while, you find ways to be more efficient and have no errors in switching states.

So the answer is to isolate the coils, and don't place them in series. Tie all the diodes together. 

This is my focus on research right now.

Hopefully this clear up some confusion.  There is still more to come. 
Again, I'm trying to think very systematically, and not overcomplicate.  Pierre device is a much simpler than many of us our thinking. Keep it simple.

Jerdee

[listener192]

 It is probably better not to think you have the missing component and say study generator basics etc until you have verified and confirmed the idea. At the very least such statements are patronising and at worst time wasting. I think Pierre is the only one that can make a statement like that, as he is the only one that has demonstrated the working device and the only one that knows the simple idea.


If anyone disagrees with me, then show me a working device.



Wether something is simple or not, is a subjective matter.


L192

[listener192]

Luc,

As you state it, you want the output coil to have more current. The way physics works, this is not something you can do directly. The only way to do this is by making sure the output coil has enough voltage to support a low resistance load which will then give a high current.

Voltage on the output coil is proportional to -Nout*dflux/dt where Nout is the number of windings on the output coil. The flux is generated by the input coils and the flux captured by the output coil is proportional to M*Iin where M is the coupling from input coil to output coil and Iin is the input current.

The coupling M between input and output is proportional to k*sqrt(Lin*Lout) where Lin is the input inductance and Lout the output inductance and k a constant related to the stator and rotor coupling.

So you can increase the output voltage by either increasing Iin, Lin or Lout, k or a combination.

Lin is proportional to Nin*Nin, Lout is proportional to Nout*Nout and just as in a transformer, output voltage divided by input voltage is proportional to Nout/Nin, just like in a regular transformer.

So if you want to increase the output voltage, you will either need to increase Nin, Nout, k or Iin. Since you don't want to increase your input voltage, the only options left over are increasing Nout, k or Iin.

You can maximize k for better coupling between stator and rotor by adjusting its thickness. This is what you have already done. Just find the optimum rotor thickness.

You have already changed the amount of current as well with still no good results for increased output voltage.

So the only thing left is to increase the number of turns on the output coil. You can increase the input inductance as well, but in that case you still need to increase the output inductance as well, otherwise your voltage is still not going up. If you want the output voltage to increase, you need to put more turns on the output than you are putting on the input.

Lasty, if you go to a higher frequency, that will increase your voltage as well, but if you are moving past the frequency limit of the stator iron, that will decrease the voltage, so these work against each other.

That's why I say to leave the input coils the same so they are in the ballpark of the stator frequency, but increase the number of turns on the output coil and find the best width for the rotor.

PmgR

Fully agree.


L192

[gotoluc]

Fully agree.


L192

I'm sure Pmgr EE Theory is correct but I'm interested in physical results. So why is it not working out that way in the real physical tests?

Regards
Luc

[konehead]

Hi Luc
"peoples suggestions are also welcomed since it looks like I may be the only one with a device that can be tested without switching issues"
OK!
I would say to forget about the crawling-rotation of coils always being ON...pulse all the coils you can do in a string ON-OFF give some decent OFF time so the coils can breath stay cool and kick out much better backemff/recoil/flyback....and hopefully thist will include some of the inherent backemf forces too and caps will fill up like crazy.

Common generators work on the make and break principle if all make and no break you don't get much...
Think about WHERE does the energy really "come from" in a generator - its actually a very mysterious thing to ponder and no amount of textbook science can fully explain - its not the magnets or electromagnets, or the windings or the rotation or anything else physical  it does not come from THOSE THINGS it comes from "out there" somewhere and supply is endless...

Use your intuition along with common sense what to try next...
( I like the bucking idea!)

Don't let people (like me) influence you too much its your baby