IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?

[mlpmlg]

In physics, when some form of energy causes change, in the movement, direction, or
the geometrical construction of an object, that energy is called a force.

I would define it as action. In physics, when some action causes change, in the movement, direction, or
the geometrical construction of an object, that action is called a force.

That change can be to cause an object to begin to move from a state of rest.

Yes.

That change can be to speed up an object's motion,

Yes.

That change can be to maintain an object's motion at a constant speed.

No. No force is required to maintain a constant speed, unless the object is being already acted upon by an outside force, such as frictional drag.

That change can be to slow down an object

Yes, this is defined as frictional drag. It is then redundant to first say that forces are needed to maintain a constant speed.

That change can be to end an object's motion.

Yes.

That change can be to change the direction of an objects motion.

Yes.

That change can be to change the geometrical shape of an object.

Yes.

That change can be to keep an object from beginning to move, when under the specific
condition that two or more forces influencing an object are in equilibrium.

Yes.

2. The force of gravity is the same applied to the ball.

Gravity acts upon the ball in all of the illustrations. That force as measured will be
/ (is by definition) direction specific (a vector).

Mainstream physics does not define gravity as a force. Einstein says that an object accelerating under gravity is an illusion, it is actually standing still. Even if Einstein is wrong though, a force according to Newton=mass*acceleration. Gravity only applies an acceleration to a mass. Thus the force is only from the ball itself, when it collides with the ramp. The implications and intended usage of the equation, is for thrusting applications, such as putting a rocket engine on a mass. In this way we can say the "gravity force" is like putting a rocket engine on an object. The more mass the object has, the less acceleration the object will have. So why does gravity appear to have uniform acceleration? The gravity force, or size of the rocket engine, increases proportionally to the mass of the object, thus creating almost the same apparent acceleration force, regardless of the mass of the object.

The magnitude of that force varies, depending upon the   direction   in which it is
measured from.

The direction an observer measures something, doesn't affect the magnitude of the force. Except maybe in quantum applications, which we weren't discussing here.

Example A.
     from directly beneath the the ball the force as a push, is maximal
Example B.
     from directly above the the ball the force as a push, is zero
Example C.
     upon a ramp which falls at a 45 degree incline from horizontal, the force
as a push, is 50% of the maximal .

The ramp exerts an electromagnetic push force, as stated. The surface angle of the ramp is the direction of the force. At 45 degrees it will provide 100% force. 100% of whatever amount of force is required to not have the objects tunnel through each other.

The gravity force is the same, does not depend on ramp angle. The only thing that changes the gravity force, is how much mass the object has. Mass generates the gravity force, in a Newtonian system.

When you add the two forces together, the electromagnetic push force and the gravity force, when you want to find the displacement for the electromagnetic repulsion force, you get something like a .707 multiplier at 45 degrees.

First and foremost...
          energy = force times displacement
          force = energy divided by displacement
          displacement = energy divided by force

The standard equation is work=force times displacement. If this is some sort of custom equation of yours I have not heard this before. I am not saying the standard equation is totally correct.

force applied to cause...
                    time is not an element in these equations !
Energy transferred is equal to 1 Joule, when in opposition to a force of 1 newton, an object is
displaced 1 meter. 1 joule = 1 newton • 1 meter (by definition).

Whether we are talking about standard equations or custom equations, time is always going to be a factor in this. Whether or not time is real, is a separate debate. It is sufficient enough to say that time is a "metric standard" which you can use to compare to other things, like an inch compared to a foot. So you need to compare a distance with another distance, otherwise the strength of the force is undefined.

One joule is the amount of work done in lifting an object 1 meter, when that object has the same
weight (in standard gravity) as does a 0.101971 kilogram mass.

It is only because these are defined that...
                    f = ma...  force = mass time acceleration, can be stated.

And what is acceleration? Time is needed to find the acceleration. Acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.

4. Are we talking about the ball's gravity or also the ball's momentum caused by gravity?

                              in the illustrations... neither
    Rather the force exerted by gravity upon the ball, but also the direction dependence
    of the opposing force to lift the ball. That force is equal to and opposite gravity's force
   upon the ball (direction specific).

No. If it is a vertical ramp such as 90 degrees, it will exert no force at all. 89 degrees will be sin(1) amount of force. Full force is sin(90). Also the ramp does not lift the ball, it simply provides an electro magnetic force opposite the surface normal angle so that the ball does not tunnel.

5. You are forgetting an important ingredient: time.
                NO.

Yes. If I have a fan at 1 rpm, or a fan at 10,000 rpm, which do you think requires more force to get the fan to that specified outcome?

6. Force, momentum, etc. all require time in the equations, distance is only part of the equation.
                      incorrect.
      Force does not.
     Momentum does, because speed and/or velocity are integral parts of defining
     momentum.

You need time to compute force. Force=mass*acceleration, acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.

  how to discuss momentum when force is not understood first ?

              f = ma does not define force !
              f = ma quantifies force,  big difference.

What is it that we are discussing in the first place? I'm not entirely sure what the image that we are discussing, is trying to prove or convey.

If 2 ramps are the same height, the ball will be the same speed, if both measurements are the same z coordinate regardless of the angles of the ramps. The only difference is the angle will change the amount of time it takes the ball to get to the z coordinate.

[Floor]

I would define it as action. In physics, when some action causes change, in the movement, direction, or
the geometrical construction of an object, that action is called a force.
Yes.
Yes.
No. No force is required to maintain a constant speed, unless the object is being already acted upon by an outside force, such as frictional drag.
Yes, this is defined as frictional drag. It is then redundant to first say that forces are needed to maintain a constant speed.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Mainstream physics does not define gravity as a force. Einstein says that an object accelerating under gravity is an illusion, it is actually standing still. Even if Einstein is wrong though, a force according to Newton=mass*acceleration. Gravity only applies an acceleration to a mass. Thus the force is only from the ball itself, when it collides with the ramp. The implications and intended usage of the equation, is for thrusting applications, such as putting a rocket engine on a mass. In this way we can say the "gravity force" is like putting a rocket engine on an object. The more mass the object has, the less acceleration the object will have. So why does gravity appear to have uniform acceleration? The gravity force, or size of the rocket engine, increases proportionally to the mass of the object, thus creating almost the same apparent acceleration force, regardless of the mass of the object.

The direction an observer measures something, doesn't affect the magnitude of the force. Except maybe in quantum applications, which we weren't discussing here.
The ramp exerts an electromagnetic push force, as stated. The surface angle of the ramp is the direction of the force. At 45 degrees it will provide 100% force. 100% of whatever amount of force is required to not have the objects tunnel through each other.

The gravity force is the same, does not depend on ramp angle. The only thing that changes the gravity force, is how much mass the object has. Mass generates the gravity force, in a Newtonian system.

When you add the two forces together, the electromagnetic push force and the gravity force, when you want to find the displacement for the electromagnetic repulsion force, you get something like a .707 multiplier at 45 degrees.







The standard equation is work=force times displacement. If this is some sort of custom equation of yours I have not heard this before. I am not saying the standard equation is totally correct.
Whether we are talking about standard equations or custom equations, time is always going to be a factor in this. Whether or not time is real, is a separate debate. It is sufficient enough to say that time is a "metric standard" which you can use to compare to other things, like an inch compared to a foot. So you need to compare a distance with another distance, otherwise the strength of the force is undefined.
And what is acceleration? Time is needed to find the acceleration. Acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.

No. If it is a vertical ramp such as 90 degrees, it will exert no force at all. 89 degrees will be sin(1) amount of force. Full force is sin(90). Also the ramp does not lift the ball, it simply provides an electro magnetic force opposite the surface normal angle so that the ball does not tunnel.
Yes. If I have a fan at 1 rpm, or a fan at 10,000 rpm, which do you think requires more force to get the fan to that specified outcome?
You need time to compute force. Force=mass*acceleration, acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.
What is it that we are discussing in the first place? I'm not entirely sure what the image that we are discussing, is trying to prove or convey.

If 2 ramps are the same height, the ball will be the same speed, if both measurements are the same z coordinate regardless of the angles of the ramps. The only difference is the angle will change the amount of time it takes the ball to get to the z coordinate.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

1. I would define it as action. In physics, when some action causes change, in the movement, direction, or
the geometrical construction of an object, that action is called a force.

             Define as you wish but an action    IS   a change, while energy is a potential
             for change.

2. No. No force is required to maintain a constant speed, unless the object is being already acted upon by an outside force, such as frictional drag.
                     Ok, this is a given.

3.  this is defined as frictional drag. It is then redundant to first say that forces are needed to maintain a constant speed.
                       Yes it is redundant.

4. Mainstream physics does not define gravity as a force.
             
                  Gravity is not a force ! Physics defines gravity as one of the forms of energy.
                                              Gravity can give rise to a force.

5. Einstein says that an object accelerating under gravity is an illusion, it is actually standing still.

            No he does not.  Show me the quote.

6.  Even if Einstein is wrong though, a force according to Newton=mass*acceleration. Gravity only applies an acceleration to a mass.

           No.  A balance scale says differently

7. Thus the force is only from the ball itself, when it collides with the ramp. The implications and intended usage of the equation, is for thrusting applications, such as putting a rocket engine on a mass. In this way we can say the "gravity force" is like putting a rocket engine on an object. The more mass the object has, the less acceleration the object will have. So why does gravity appear to have uniform acceleration? The gravity force, or size of the rocket engine, increases proportionally to the mass of the object, thus creating almost the same apparent acceleration force, regardless of the mass of the object.

                  I'm not going to dissect the above. Instead, I'll just recommend for all readers
                  to open some books and watch fewer you tube videos that are over your head.

8. The direction an observer measures something, doesn't affect the magnitude of the force.

            Incorrect. Force is a vector quality. Any statement of the magnitude of a force, is
            meaningless if the direction of that force is not known.

Example...
An inclined plane allows one to apply less force when raising an object to some
specified height, but that object must be displaced farther than if it is lifted straight up.

  Omitting friction losses and so on, the total amount of work done as the lifting of that
  object is the same in the two conditions. 

                                          The force required is not.

  The applied force required to raise the object depends upon the angle of the ramp (the
  DIRECTION in relationship to gravity's force).

9.  Except maybe in quantum applications, which we weren't discussing here.
The ramp exerts an electromagnetic push force, as stated. The surface angle of the ramp is the direction of the force. At 45 degrees it will provide 100% force. 100% of whatever amount of force is required to not have the objects tunnel through each other.

    No comment.

10. The gravity force is the same, does not depend on ramp angle. The only thing that changes the gravity force, is how much mass the object has. Mass generates the gravity force, in a Newtonian system.

  No comment

11. When you add the two forces together, the electromagnetic push force and the gravity force, when you want to find the displacement for the electromagnetic repulsion force, you get something like a .707 multiplier at 45 degrees.

No comment.

12. The standard equation is work=force times displacement. If this is some sort of custom equation of yours I have not heard this before.

It is not custom. That you do not understand it, is your own problem, not mine.


13. I am not saying the standard equation is totally correct.
Whether we are talking about standard equations or custom equations, time is always going to be a factor in this. Whether or not time is real, is a separate debate. It is sufficient enough to say that time is a "metric standard" which you can use to compare to other things, like an inch compared to a foot. So you need to compare a distance with another distance, otherwise the strength of the force is undefined.
And what is acceleration? Time is needed to find the acceleration. Acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.

No. If it is a vertical ramp such as 90 degrees, it will exert no force at all. 89 degrees will be sin(1) amount of force. Full force is sin(90). Also the ramp does not lift the ball, it simply provides an electro magnetic force opposite the surface normal angle so that the ball does not tunnel.
Yes. If I have a fan at 1 rpm, or a fan at 10,000 rpm, which do you think requires more force to get the fan to that specified outcome?
You need time to compute force. Force=mass*acceleration, acceleration=change in velocity/change in time.
What is it that we are discussing in the first place? I'm not entirely sure what the image that we are discussing, is trying to prove or convey.

If 2 ramps are the same height, the ball will be the same speed, if both measurements are the same z coordinate regardless of the angles of the ramps. The only difference is the angle will change the amount of time it takes the ball to get to the z coordinate.

  No comment except, Wow !

[mlpmlg]

1. I would define it as action. In physics, when some action causes change, in the movement, direction, or
the geometrical construction of an object, that action is called a force.

             Define as you wish but an action    IS   a change, while energy is a potential
             for change.

I would say force is action, the actual change, while momentum is potential energy, or the potential for change.

              Gravity is not a force ! Physics defines gravity as one of the forms of energy.
                                              Gravity can give rise to a force.

Ok.

5. Einstein says that an object accelerating under gravity is an illusion, it is actually standing still.

            No he does not.  Show me the quote.

Not sure if Einstein actually said this, but this seems to be the standard interpretation of modern physicists. Geodesics and whatnot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3be0zs/how_are_orbiting_objects_not_accelerating_due_to/

6.  Even if Einstein is wrong though, a force according to Newton=mass*acceleration. Gravity only applies an acceleration to a mass.

           No.  A balance scale says differently

Balance scale does not count. I was saying that gravity itself is not a force. In order for a force you need 2 objects, a bean bag and a balance scale. According to Newton's equation, Gravity does not provide the force, it provides the acceleration. The bean bag provides the mass. Bean bag+gravity=potential force, Bean bag+gravity+balance scale=actual interactivity, actual force. The force is from electromagnetic repulsion.

8. The direction an observer measures something, doesn't affect the magnitude of the force.

            Incorrect. Force is a vector quality. Any statement of the magnitude of a force, is
            meaningless if the direction of that force is not known.

I think what you are saying is, if an object has momentum, the impact force upon collision depends on the angle of the surface normal.

https://overunity.com/17817/is-this-a-reactionless-drive-or-a-perpetual-motion-machine/dlattach/attach/182559/image//

It doesn't matter if force1 is less than force2. Because distance doesn't specify energy. You need to account for time in the equation. In a no friction environment, you could flick a marble with your finger and wait an hour, it will travel the same distance as a marble you thrust out of your arms with a lot of force. The only difference is the time it takes to reach that distance.

Even though Force 1 is smaller, and the distance is larger, it also takes more time to reach more distance. Therefore no free energy can be harvested from that scenario.

As for your question "where does the additional energy used in Force 3 come from" I already answered you, I said it is the electromagnetic repulsion force pressing in the direction of the surface normal so the two objects do not tunnel.

[Floor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_work


Work and energy

The work W done by a constant force of magnitude F on a point that moves a displacement s in a straight line in the direction of the force is the product

    W = F s

no time element
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
The newton unit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)

                or

https://www.convertunits.com/from/newton/to/grams

1 newton = 101.97162129779 grams (in standard gravity)
           and
101.97162129779 grams (in standard gravity) = 1 newton of force (down).

no time element, none.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Lift 101.97162129779 grams in standard gravity, by 1 meter and 1 joule of work has been done.
or 1 joule of energy has been transferred. 

Acceleration and time are not considerations here / above, no need to.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

definition of the newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

definition of force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Too many of your statements are either non sequitur, and / or simply too incomplete
of a statement to make sense of.
                         
Initially I simply overlooked / filled in the blanks, based on what would be
reasonable to assume you were trying to say.  I guess now that this was a bad idea.
          additionally
You are making projections, and misrepresenting many of the the statements
I have made.   Harbingers ?
                     
     


   I've seen these kinds of behaviors before.

Do a better job please.

[George1]

To Floor.
========================
THE SIMPLE OBVIOUS FACT, that you keep constantly avoiding to answer my two simple questions 15 TIMES IN A ROW (!), unambiguously shows that you are either a  stubborn ignoramus and/or a paid agent of the official science mafia, who makes some money by trying to manipulate the audience in a clumsy and unskillful manner. In any case it is more than evident for all honest members of good will of this forum, that you are simply a professional (but clumsy) cheater and an unworthy person! How much do they pay you? Shame on you!
========================
ANSWER THE TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS BELOW!
LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR TWO ANSWERS FOR THE 16TH TIME!
------------------------------------------
Consider carefully and thoroughly again (and many times, if necessary!) the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX14NK8GrDY
-------------------------------------------
A key component for a proper understanding of the zigzag mechanical concept is the SIMPLE OBVIOUS FACT, that the zigzags generate a mechanical effect, (a) which is absolutely identical and equivalent to friction and (b) which does not generate heat. And this SIMPLE OBVIOUS FACT is clearly explained and described in PART 1 and in PART 2.
------------------------------------------
And now focus on PART 3 where:
Ma = 1 kg
Mb = 4 kg. (The value of Mb can be either increased or decreased as many times as you want.)
V1 = 1m/s = const
Ffr. = force of friction inside the zigzag channels = 0.0000001 N. (The latter can be further decreased as many times as you want.)   
N = number of zigzags = 10. (The value of N can be either increased or decreased as many times as you want.)
Shapes of the zigzags = sinusoids. (The latter can replaced by any other curve patterns.)
QUESTION 1: V2 = ? (How many meters per second is V2 equal to?)
QUESTION 2: V3 = ? (How many meters per second is V3 equal to?)
-----------------------------------------
ANSWER THE ABOVE TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS!
LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR TWO ANSWERS FOR THE 16TH TIME!