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Overunity Machines Forum



The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.

Started by rakarskiy, November 02, 2018, 11:56:37 AM

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rakarskiy

My reader, who advised to lay out everything openly, https://drive.google.com/file/d/10GudcqqKmmcF402vLxZHp5L6LWdTYoek/view
and other hydraulic engineers who were impressed by this design identified the expansion diffuser in front of the outlet as the most vulnerable point in the design. Yes, indeed, in a simple calculation, everything is simple and does not contradict the laws of hydraulics. But the coefficient of pressure loss, or rather speed, depends on the cavitation processes. And the most interesting thing is that all this is well studied, there are corresponding solutions. For example, the diameter of the maximum expansion is 182 mm, the diameter of the outlet pipe of the pump is 75 mm, the length of the diffuser cone, with an expansion angle of 6 degrees, will be about 1200 mm. Hydraulics claims that a long diffuser can cause cavitation, which will increase flow resistance. And one more detail - it is technically very difficult and expensive to make such a transition with polishing the inner surface in the mirror. Again, there are solutions for the cascade variant of the diffusion transition. Firstly, we can increase the angle and decrease the length of the diffuser (cavitation at a cone angle of 10-50 g starts from the middle, which means that in the middle (or better, closer to the inlet diameter) there should be a pipe section of the transition section. If at an angle of 40 degrees, the drag coefficient ξ = 0.5, then at 6 degrees = 0.07 (but the possibility of cavitation remains.) I calculated the cascade in four links, received the indicators in each section: (1 section 20 degrees) ξ = 0.046; (2 section 20 degrees) ξ = 0.043; (3 section 25 degrees) ξ = 0.042; (4 section -15 degrees) ξ = 0.041 It turns out that even if the length of this section increases to 1500-1700 mm, the resistance to fluid flow decreases. reality, it will decrease.In the nozzle zone at the corresponding angle, a negative resistance is obtained equal to ξ = - 0.68
PS. A hydraulics worker at an oil refinery wrote to me about the cascade implementation of the diffusion transition task. They have such tricks when pumping gasoline into the channel. Later, I found a brief reference to this possibility in academic sources.

Floor

At the pressures and temperatures which can be generated by the pump,  there will be no
compression or cavitation or expansion of the water in the pipe system.

Restricting the nozzle outlet decreases the water volume flowing through it.
This will also increase the pressure in the pipe system as compared to what the
pressure within the system would be if the nozzle opening were larger.

The pressure within the pipe can only go as high as the pump can deliver and
then only while the nozzle is completely closed.

The energy and / or power available from the water that is jettisoned  from the
nozzle, is the product of both the speed of the water exiting the nozzle and the
volume of that water.

If we increase the speed by narrowing the nozzle we decrease the volume.
If we increase the volume by enlarging the nozzle opening we decrease the
speed of the water as it exits.

Increasing the cross section of the pipe reduces turbulence and friction within the
water flow / pipe.

Restricting the pipe diameter in any way will decrease the volume of
water flowing in the pipe. 

One can increase the speed of the water flow, but one cannot in this way increase
the energy present as that flow.   

In such cases we can trade speed for volume or volume for speed, but the total
energy remains essentially the same.

Also, any restricting of the pipe diameter will only decrease the energy available
at the nozzle.  This is due to friction losses within the pipe / turbulence.

But then I am sure that you must already be aware of these things.

  floor

rakarskiy

Quote from: Floor on January 10, 2021, 01:05:55 AM
At the pressures and temperatures which can be generated by the pump,  there will be no
compression or cavitation or expansion of the water in the pipe system.

Restricting the nozzle outlet decreases the water volume flowing through it.
This will also increase the pressure in the pipe system as compared to what the
pressure within the system would be if the nozzle opening were larger.

The pressure within the pipe can only go as high as the pump can deliver and
then only while the nozzle is completely closed.

The energy and / or power available from the water that is jettisoned  from the
nozzle, is the product of both the speed of the water exiting the nozzle and the
volume of that water.

If we increase the speed by narrowing the nozzle we decrease the volume.
If we increase the volume by enlarging the nozzle opening we decrease the
speed of the water as it exits.

Increasing the cross section of the pipe reduces turbulence and friction within the
water flow / pipe.

Restricting the pipe diameter in any way will decrease the volume of
water flowing in the pipe. 

One can increase the speed of the water flow, but one cannot in this way increase
the energy present as that flow.   

In such cases we can trade speed for volume or volume for speed, but the total
energy remains essentially the same.

Also, any restricting of the pipe diameter will only decrease the energy available
at the nozzle.  This is due to friction losses within the pipe / turbulence.

But then I am sure that you must already be aware of these things.

  floor

These are nothing more than quotes. I don't even want to argue. I posted everything publicly. The idea was based on Bernoulli's rules. The problem of local resistances and minimization of cavitation processes is solved and methods of absolute minimization are found.
In front of the nozzle, for example, we have a speed of 0.3 m / s and a pressure of 14 atmospheres (1.4 MPa), which will correspond to a pressure of H - 144 meters (1 atmosphere = 10.33227 meters). The nozzle has a conical (conoidal) shape at the base of 182 mm and at the exit 25 mm at an angle of, for example, 40 degrees. Let's say it has a container 145 m high, 80 mm in diameter, at the base of the side nozzles, a cone of 182/25 mm with a cone angle of 40 degrees. Count and show what is wrong, I will answer by calculation!
Theses are more for trolls, the engineer loves calculation. There is no conflict with the textbook. By the way, the hydraulic technicians (practitioners) are just interested and don't draw positive or negative conclusions.

Floor

I'm not questioning Bernoulli's theorem, or the math presented. 

I am simply stating an observation that...
no efficiency increase will be obtained from the present design, which would be
greater than, if one simply eliminates any sharp turns in the pipe while also increasing
the diameter of the pipe over the entire length (both, from the supply tank to pump and
also from the pump to the nozzle).

best wishes.
  floor

rakarskiy

The book (new edition) contains material about a cascade diffuser. An element has been added to the calculator for calculating the cascade of channel expansion from diffusers.