A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1

[George1]

To lancaIV
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Hi, lancaIV.
Thanks a lot for your reply.
1) In my poor opinion a standard ordinary electrolyzer can be considered as a simple electric heater as well as a generator of cheap energy. These two properties of any standard ordinary electrolyzer are related one to another.
2) Thanks a lot for the link you have sent to me. I will cosider it carefully.
3) What are these DOE, EU-Eureka grants, MITI, etc.? Would you be so polite to give some more information about them?
4) And what about the last line of your last post: "Audi,Toyota,GM,Hyundai,......" You mean that these companies are also searching for methods of generating of cheap energy? If yes, then how to contact the correct companies' departments involved in the topic?
5) You wrote also: "...... many  universities,science institutions and comercial R&D labs are working in this scene." Would you be so polite to enumerate some of them and show the most direct links to the related departments and/or people?
Looking forward to your answer.
Best regards,
George
 

[George1]

To gyulasun
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Hi Gyula.
Thanks a lot for your reply.
1) Yes, I perfectly agree with you. You are absolutely right. All your comments and recommendations are reasonable and correct. And thank you for this!
2) The quality of our 800-pages report is not satisfiable. I don't like it at all. Too many incorrectnesses, too many experimental errors, whose percentage is bigger than acceptable, etc. In my poor opinion the experiments must be carried out again and I persuaded into doing this all members of our team. But this time I will take part PERSONALLY in all experimental procedures. (I am studying hard experimental calorimetry as you know from my previous posts.)
3) The first step seems to me comparatively easy -- to measure voltage V, current I and time t at the inlet, thus measuring the inlet energy.
4) The problem is how to measure CALORIMETRICALLY in a reliable and simple manner the Joule's heat generated by the electrolyzer. Any good idea is welcome.
5) Another problem is (a) how to store in a reliable and simple manner the generated hydrogen and (b) how to weigh the already generated hydrogen in a reliable and simple manner too. Or to measure the generated hydrogen's volume at a certain pressure (may be at atmospheric pressure?) and after that to calculate the hygrogen's weight? Any good idea is welcome.
6) Shall we test the hydrogen's HHV=142 MJ/kg or take it for granted?
Looking forward to your answer.
Best regards,
George
           

[lancaIV]

U. S. Department of Energy program ( New technologies and new energy concepts related)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPA-E
http://www.arpae-summit.com/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomCAR_and_Vehicle_Technologies

European Union program :
https://www.welcomeurope.com/european-funds/eureka-302+202.html#tab=onglet_details

Japanese estatal program ( M. I. T. I.,   now M. E. T. I. )
http://www.meti.go.jp/english/
Not to forget chinese,indian, korean and russian estatal research & developments.

Comercial R&D : (petro-) chemical industry ( great hydrogen producer and user)
Shell and Exxon has been some of the greatest re-/ searcher in the renewable ( photovoltaic, windconversion)energy sector ( and are !).

And all are working together ( energy and mobility is a trillion $ market ):
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosieger.de%2Fshell-und-choren-zusammenarbeit-zu-sunfuel-vereinbart-article6952.html
But :
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.heise.de%2Ftr%2Fartikel%2FDer-Sprit-ist-aus-1726672.html


Nevertheless  the idea " renewable ( clean and save) fuel" is alive :https://www.autosieger.de/VW-betreibt-SunFuel-Flotte-article240.html

The semi-estatal industrial VW-trust(Included AUDI)  has thousands of R&D engineers : f. e. by participation  https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAV and many cooperations and projects with universities worldwide.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIAV

Cheap heat and electricity ( in future e- producer will have to pay for surplus net-charge/ load) and price potential :
http://www.dotyenergy.com/
If you have got something real then go to international energy challenges their "showroom" and compete !
https://www.ideaconnection.com/challenges/

[gyulasun]

Hi George,

Some of your questions (nr 4 or 5) can be answered by either experts from local university or college physics or chemics labs where you may also find some kind of calorimeters too and / or searching for selected solutions on the web. 

Regarding your 6th question:

Shall we test the hydrogen's HHV=142 MJ/kg or take it for granted?

Well, you do not need to test the HHV value but please study what the so called LHV is because LHV=120 MJ/kg 'only' for the Hydrogen. 

I think this lower value is valid when the 'latent' energy i.e. for instance the heat in the hot air created during burning is not utilized (while the burning Hydrogen does heat up say a given amount of water from T1 to T2 temperature during a measured time duration). 
So if you do not utilize the otherwise escaping secondary heat during Hydrogen burning, then you can use as worst case the LHV=120 MJ/kg.  Especially, if you seem to receive COP > 1 measured result with the LHV value... 

Gyula

[George1]

Hi Gyula,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
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The majority of our team is strongly against carrying out the experiments related to the electrolyzer's COP. This is because a certain set of reliable and precise tests would take a lot of time and money and would engage a lot of people.
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Instead our team's greatest expert in electric engineering suggests the following made-of-iron logical construction which is equivalent to the most precise experiment.
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1) Firstly, let us assume that the law of conservation of energy is valid for the electrolyte of any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer. ( No matter whether this is an amateur YouTube-presented electrolyzer or a professional laboratory/industrial electrolyzer.) Therefore we can write down the equality
VxIxt=IxIxRxt + H   (1)
where
V is the voltage of the battery;
I is the current, generated by the battery, and the current, which flows through the electrolyte;
R is the ohmic resistance of the electrolyte;
t is time;
H is the heat of burning of hydrogen.
If equality (1) is true, then we can write down the following inequality
V>IxR   (2).
Let us put together (1) and (2), that is,
VxIxt=IxIxRxt + H   (1)   <=>  V>IxR   (2).
Equality (1) and inequality (2) unambiguously show that for any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer if the law of conservation of energy is valid, then the Ohm's law is not valid.
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2) Secondly, let us assume that the Ohm's law is valid for the electrolyte of any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer. Therefore we can write down the equality
V=IxR   (3).
If equality (3) is true, then we can write down the following inequality
VxIxt<IxIxRxt + H    (4).
Let us put together (3) and (4), that is,
V=IxR   (3)  <=>  VxIxt<IxIxRxt + H    (4).
Equality (3) and inequality (4) unambiguously show that for any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer if the Ohm's law is valid, then the law of conservation of energy is not valid.
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In one word, according to the text above there are three possible options for any standard and ordinary hydrogen-generating electrolyzer, which are as follows.
OPTION 1. If the law of conservation of energy is valid, then the Ohm's law is not valid.
OPTION 2. If the Ohm's law is valid, then the law of conservation of energy is not valid.
OPTION 3. Both the Ohm's law and the law of conservation of energy are not valid simultaneously to some extent.
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AND WHATEVER EXPERIMENTS TO CARRY OUT THE EXPERIMENTAL RESULTS WILL BE A REALIZATION OF ONE OF THE ABOVE THREE OPTIONS.
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In my poor opinion the situation cannot be explained in a simpler and clearer manner.
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Looking forward to your answer.
Best regards,
George