The two capacitor paradox debate

[Lunkster]

Hi,  In the drawing it placed in this feed, I could have created a video and related the size of the hole in the valve with the amount of time it takes for the liquid to move from glass one to glass two.  I could have had a chart how the volume of liquid moving from glass one decreases with time as it moves from glass one to glass two.  This difference is in how high the liquid is in each glass that changes this rate of transfer.  I could then say that the R/C time constant curve looks the same as the liquid or gas transfer from one glass to the other glass.  The same curve happens as the electrons moving from the plates of one capacitor to the other. 
Now with the transfer of liquid from one glass to the other is the force of gravity is forcing the liquids to be equalized.  WIth gas it would be pressure equalization. But it is not gravity that causes the electrons to move from one capacitor to the other.  So what causes the electrons to take the trip in the first place.  It that the question that is being looked at here?  Is there a pressure that causes the movement? I do not think pressure is the correct word for the movement of electrons.  But is the voltage like the pressure to move the electrons to a lower potential level until both the number of electrons are equal in both capacitors reducing the overall voltage across both capacitors? 

The Lunkester

[kajunbee]

The paradox is the energy loss during the transfer of charge. You start with 1 capacitor that has lets say 1 joule of energy. After the charges equalize between two capacitors the calculated energy is half of what you started with. Instead of 1/2 joule on each cap you are left with .25 joules on each one. This adds up to a total of 1/2 joule of energy. Where did the other half go???

[v8karlo]

It is a very good question.


Is it pressure?


We all use that term pressure or voltage, but is it really that?
Electricity is not water or gas, and electrons are too slow.


I thought about it many times, and pressure just does not fit exactly.
But without better explanation, I am stuck.


Short answer: I really dont know.


It is like magnetic gears.
If you turn first, second will
turn, and third, and so on.
Even if they turn, they stay on spot, they dont move.


Electrons orbiting atom.
If first atom electrons change orbiting path, it will affect second atom electrons orbiting path, thwn third atom electrons orbiting path and so on, like chain reaction.
When force on first atom electrons stops, they all tend to get back to their usual orbiting paths.
So , nothing really moves, just rearanging orbiting paths of electrons.


And under force, lots of them will jump from their orbitals and become free electrons, which confuses us to think that electrons travel.


Just a thought, I really dont know.

[onepower]

V8larko

I said that I can only speculate and try to find reason other than losses.
It seems that you know answer and everything about it,
and I am confused why you opened thread if all of that is known to you?
Did you want to hear others opinions, or to find some victim so you can preach to that person how wrong he is?
Neither you or I are right.
Why?
Because it is still cap conundrum and is not solved.

I offered a solution of where and why the energy dissipates for debate in the beginning of the thread, you did read it didn't you?. So why are you confused?.
So yes, I did solve it and now I'm looking for opinions on my solutions.

Is it pressure?
We all use that term pressure or voltage, but is it really that?
Electricity is not water or gas, and electrons are too slow.
I thought about it many times, and pressure just does not fit exactly.
But without better explanation, I am stuck.
Short answer: I really dont know.

I know you don't know but I can help. The electrical pressure relates to the electric field around each electron and while they move slow there are billions and billions of them which produce a very powerful "electron cloud" with a combined field. I remember something from a good book on the subject by A.D.Moore on electrostatics. Moore said if we had a 1 cm cube of aluminum and separated all the positive and negative charges 1 meter apart. The electric field would produce a force of something like 32 million million million pounds. This force is equivalent to the weight of a steel cube 76 miles square.

So you are very much wrong and those tiny electrons in something as simple as a 1cm cube of aluminum can produce unimaginable forces in the right context. The atomic bomb is based on liberating some electrons from a small amount of material which produces a massive amount of energy which can incinerate an entire city... just from moving some little electrons.

So it's probably a good idea to understand what is actually going on because our civilization and every technology we know is based on moving some electrons. Electricity, chemistry, biology, everything revolves around atoms and the electric forces which dictate there action. Kind of important stuff.

Regards

[kajunbee]

Your explanation in first post is the conclusion that I came to also. That it is simply the redistribution of charges over a larger area. I had given this quite a bit of thought over the years and was fairly comfortable with this explanation until recently. There are several videos on YouTube now concerning the paradox. In one it was said that if there was not a loss of energy the stored charge would slosh back and forth till the end of time. I'll see if I can find it again and provide you the link.