RANT CAFFE ASYLUM

[picowatt]

EMJ,

I would think you would welcome any suggestions, and the opportunity they provide, to silence the naysayers and prove your claims.

What data can we glean from video #5 at around 7:30?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk9uSOdj-hE

A DC power supply is feeding a circuit drawing 17 watts of power as indicated by the DC supply.  The load being driven is a series string of two small incandescent lamps that are rated at 14VDC @.2amps.  Therefore, when the series string is connected across 28VDC, the lamps will draw 5.6 watts at their rated brightness.  There is also an oscilloscope connected to measure the power consumed by the load (the two small incandescent lamps) that is indicating that the lamps are consuming 20 watts.

DC supply indicates 17watts
Scope indicates 20 watts
Lamps indicate 5.6 watts

A good researcher would look at those three indications and want to verify, confirm, and sort out those three indications to either find a measurement error or be proudly able to verify the circuit's claimed operation. 

Consider the two incandescent lamps, a good researcher would stand back, look at those indications, and ask themselves "are those two small lamps actually consuming 20 watts as the scope indicates, or even the 17 watts the supply indicates"?  "Can those two small 2.8 watt rated lamps even handle that much power"? 

That researcher would want to connect the series string of two lamps directly to the DC power supply and adjust that DC supply until the lamps lit with similar brightness as observed during the POC test.  That researcher would note the power draw indicated by the DC supply and compare that indication to the 17 watts and 20 watts indicated during the POC test.  A very simple 5 minute test.

If it really does take 20 watts from the DC supply to make the lamps illuminate as bright as they were in the video, congratulations, that confirms the scope readings, and the circuit may indeed be operating above unity.

However, if the lamps draw less than 20 watts, or even less than 17 watts, when driven to similar brightness by the DC power supply, that researcher would want to continue sorting it all out.

Regarding the scope indication, a simple test has been suggested that ensures the scope math is programmed to indicate real power using two square waves.

A researcher should welcome any such suggestions, particularly if the tests proposed use equipment the researcher already has and requires little time to perform.

If the scope reads zero power when the two square waves are out of phase, another step has been made toward confirming above unity operation.  If the scope does not read zero power, that would indicate the scope math is incorrect and efforts should be made to sort that out.

Surely you can see the logic in the above discussion.

PW

[FriskyFritz]

thank you Stefan 
I warned Die silly boy
I told him he was breaking rules
we will eat sausages now
Fritz

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« on: September 15, 2008, 12:40:28 AM »
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[lancaIV]

What is the logic and target from this circuit ?
The efficiency from lamps as indicator :
                                                        lumen per Watt
lamps rated Watt : 2,8 Watt

2 lamps = 5,6 Watt

Charging with by  some assumed 17,8 Watt ' pure power" ~ 17,8 Wh hourly consume !
                                         
                                               5,6 Watt lamps lumen output / 17,8 Watt
                                                            lumen/Watt circuit  ratio ?


battery + lamps       versus battery + circuit + lamps   ' dura-cell like' teste for comparison !

Duration before and after !

Sincerely

p.s: ramset his heatbox teste configuration is well mind ,but :

between industrial same rated Watt-age devices are physical-technical output differences
Reference : terrarium hobbiists their heat bulbs comparison study

between lamp rated Volt-age/tension and used upper/lower Volt-age is a non-linear output as lumen and heat relationship

[picowatt]

Quote from: EMJunkie on Today at 07:28:17 AM

Well, to accurately measure the Power in the Circuit, we must Average the Instantaneous Voltage over time, and Average the Instantaneous Current over Time, this product is the Total Power during this time Period in this Circuit. Right? Do we agree?

This is incorrect.  If you program the scope to the above math, the scope will not indicate real power to the load.

You should instead multiply the instantaneous voltage by the instantaneous current, and then average that product.

Programmed as you describe, the scope would not read zero watts in the suggested "two square wave test" when the square waves are out of phase.  That is why that two square wave test was suggested as a quick test of the scope's math programming.  Programmed as I suggest, the scope will read zero watts when the two square waves are out of phase.

Perhaps CaptainLoz will perform the POC test again using the two series incandescent lamps as the load, note the supply and scope readings, and then drive the lamps to comparable brightness directly from the DC supply and note the power draw from the supply.  If the scope measurements do not agree with the "directly driven from the DC supply" measurements, consider reprogramming the scope math.

PW

[picowatt]

Quote from: EMJunkie on Today at 07:55:39 AM

Oh Picowatt, come on!

You are saying EXACTLY the same as I said!

That is not true.  You said:

"Well, to accurately measure the Power in the Circuit, we must Average the Instantaneous Voltage over time, and Average the Instantaneous Current over Time, this product is the Total Power during this time Period in this Circuit. Right? Do we agree?"

You appear to be stating that you should average the voltage, average the current, and then multiply those two averages together.

I said:

"You should instead multiply the instantaneous voltage by the instantaneous current, and then average that product."


PW