Lords of the Ring

[Gustav22]

...You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc.

I always wondered why he says etc. here.
I think the etc. stands for something he can not state clearly. I think the etc. stands for a connection in M?bius fashion.

[z_p_e]

Perhaps some inside the box thinking going on here, so consider this:

3 Collectors and 3 frequencies = Cadillac model (Greatest output, highest order of control necessary).

2 Collectors, 2 frequencies (possibly even 2 sets of 3 frequencies) = Standard model (easier to control).

The picture I posted in the Master thread quite clearly shows 2 collectors were used in that particular unit.

Folks are assuming all units use 3 frequencies, and/or 3 collectors.

Folks are assuming if/when a third frequency is used, it is somehow created out of the other two.

Frequencies ARE critical, don't assume they aren't.

Folks are assuming PURE frequency means sine waves, why? Really think about it. "Purity signal" is putting words in the horse's mouth.

Folks assume tubes are recommended because they produce less distortion. That's total hogwash. An entire discussion all its own is require for this really, but two points to keep in mind here:

1) Tubes have lower gain than most SS devices, and that's why they require/use less feedback.
2) Tubes produce as much if not more wave form distortion than SS, but the TYPE of distortion may be what's at play here.

Folks ought to consider (seriously) that tubes provide a robust test rig for proof of concept because they are almost immune to various forms of outside influence and noise that would otherwise throw off the operation of SS components being operated outside the "ring".

Chau,
Darren

[bolt]

i don't know about that as SM quotes pure frequency and so why did he not quote accurate frequency or precision. He didn't. Pure frequency to me means sine waves. I'm an RF engineer and we go to great lengths making sure that from the oscillator through to the power output stage distortion is minimized. Basically its the sh$t in sh$t out scenario.  A transformer coupling maintains purity and we can scope the AC after it has reached our homes as perfect sine 50 or 60 Hz and we know that with inverters the cheaper crude designs are known as Quasi Sine and pure sine is very expensive at high power. The output of quasi sine is usually push pull and there is a shaushed top an bottom to the sine with zero switch spike. In fact the initial clock is usually square and there are attempts to round it off to produce the quasi sine. Motors hate quasi they can overheat and make odd noises.

Audio purest go for class A audio amps with tubes because there the distortion is barely measurable. This cant be achieved with trannies but power MOS FETs come close second.

SM states the 2nd frequncy is a second harmonic of the first. A tuned tank will pick this out very clean. If we are to minimize  harmonics then im not sure pulse square wave is the answer. In fact with a good RF transmitter you can scope the RF and its a clean sine wave with very few lobes and hardly any harmonics and thats where i think he mean pure.

Tubes are far more robust too for this experimental work although i have worked with them in the past and seen many errie blue glows and have destroyed a few running 500 watts RF transmitters. This is why SM states they are more forgiving and cleaner.

[kames]

@bolt,

Tube amplifiers have level of harmonics between 0.1 ? 1%. Transistor amplifiers can go as low as 0.001%. Tubes do have higher distortion but there is one big difference. Tubes don?t produce very high order of harmonics. All harmonics are usually in a range not exceeding the 3rd or the 5th  in case of a sine signal. All harmonics in tube amplifiers are very well bound in phase to the base signal. Transistors can create order higher than 11th. In transistor amplifiers, the high order (not level) of harmonics is caused mostly by a current going through a p-n barrier. Those harmonics are not bound in phase to the base signal, they are more or less random. That is what makes tube amplifiers sound better despite that the high order of harmonics in SS might well be outside the range of 20kHz.
In this case, the pure frequency could be understood as a well controlled spectrum of the signal without any random harmonics produced by the p-n barrier.
MOSFET are more or less free from this problem.
If you use a pure sine, how are going to generate kicks without introducing a kind of a non-linear element in the circuit? If you do introduce such a non-linear element, what is a difference in using pulses from the start? You can reproduce a pulse by using a lot of different frequencies with different phase, that is true. But you have only 2 or 3 frequency with pure sine, hardly enough to create a kick.

Kames.

[z_p_e]

i don't know about that as SM quotes pure frequency and so why did he not quote accurate frequncy or precision. He didn't. Pure frequncy to me means sine waves. I'm an RF engineer and we go to great lengths making sure that from the oscillator through to the power output stage distortion is minimized. Basically its the sh$t in sh$t out scenario.  A transformer coupling maintains purity and we can scope the AC after it has reached our homes as perfect sine 50 or 60 Hz and we know that with inverters the cheaper crude designs are known as Quasi Sine and pure sine is very expensive at high power. The output of quasi sine is usually push pull and there is a shaushed top an bottom to the sine with zero switch spike. In fact the initial clock is usually square and there are attempts to round it off to produce the quasi sine. Motors hate quasi they can overheat and make odd noises.

As I said, really think about it.

The term "frequency" does not imply any wave form type at all does it?

You are new here so you still have reading and understanding to do regarding SM and the TPU. SM does not spell things out. In fact many clues are carefully worded, both to not explicitly explain things, and to say as much as possible with the fewest of words. It takes some time to understand "Steven-speak" but it will come if you stay at it.

Audio purest go for class A audio amps with tubes because there the distortion is barely measurable. This cant be achieved with trannies but power MOS FETs come close second.

This is a total misnomer and a myth. A class A amp can be designed with any device and achieve good THD specs. Tubes certainly do not shine in producing the least amount of THD, if anything, they produce more than SS. They simply do not have the gain to apply the necessary NF to reduce the THD to levels below 0.5% or so.

Where tubes shine is both in the spectrum of THD produced, and the fact that little NF is applied, thus reducing discordant IM distortion. Tubes sound more pleasant to the ear, not because of lower THD, but because of the "processing" they perform on the output.

SM states the 2nd frequncy is a second harmonic of the first. A tuned tank will pick this out very clean. If we are to minimize  harmonics then im not sure pulse square wave is the answer. In fact with a good RF transmitter you can scope the RF and its a clean sine wave with very few lobes and hardly any hamonics and thats where i think he mean pure.

Who said harmonics need to be reduced? If harmonic-related pulses are indeed part of the operating principle of the TPU, then we are not interested so much in mitigating the harmonics generated by them, as much as the timing, brevity, slope, and stability of them.

Tubes are far more robust too for this experimental work although i have worked with them in the past and seen many errie blue glows and have destroyed a few running 500 watts RF transmitters. This is why SM states they are more forgiving and cleaner.

I don't think we'll have to worry about that happening in this application. I believe "forgiving" may be in relation to the kickback spikes and resonances that occur at the tube's output, not destroying the device.

Cheers,
Darren