Energy From Permanent Magnets

[arbus]

Hi, ppl,and
rukiddingme,
I just want to see if i understand the principle. 
the theory behind your idea is that it takes less energy to change the polarity of electromagnet then the kinetik energy of the attracted/repelled magnet.

I am not sure how much energy you need to magnetise the core before it will repel. But worth testing. my guess is that you will end up with a resonating effect that will require more power in then what you get out. Yes similar to an electric motor.

I am doing tests on a similar motor to
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1868.new.html#new
Will try to adapt it to test your theory..??

Ar

[rukiddingme]

Hi, ppl,and
rukiddingme,
I just want to see if i understand the principle. 
the theory behind your idea is that it takes less energy to change the polarity of electromagnet then the kinetik energy of the attracted/repelled magnet.

Yes, except there is no repelling going on, the force from the EM is only enough to release the magnetic grip, not a repelling force. We don?t have to run the electromagnet up to an ?equal? magnet, we only have to create an electromagnet with enough force to release the magnetic grip.

I am not sure how much energy you need to magnetise the core before it will repel. But worth testing. my guess is that you will end up with a resonating effect that will require more power in then what you get out. Yes similar to an electric motor.

Could you explain what you mean by "a resonating effect"? Do you mean induction?

Yes, I agree. The test I have planned is to hang an EM (ElectroMagnet) vertically. Attach good sized PMs (Permanent Magnet) to the top and bottom of the EM (be careful) so that different polarities of the PMs are attached to the non magnetized metal core of the EM. Apply current until the bottom magnet falls off. Be careful, you have to have the polarity of the EM match the polarities of the PMs. Measure that current and write it down.

Make sure you put a .5 millimeter or so piece of plastic or wood between the EMs and the PMs. We don?t want to have physical contact; we don?t want an exchange of electrons. I only think this instinctively, it may be just the opposite. It may be we want electrons to flow. In that case we would need to design it so that the PM doesn?t strike the EM but a contact device is put into the piston unit to make electrical contact between the EM and the PM.

The next experiment is to set up the magnets as above and send just a current ?pulse? of a certain length. We really need just a pulse and the length of that pulse is important. This way we can measure the watt seconds used to release the magnet. This isn?t exactly true, because the pull of the PM away from the EM by the crankshaft acts faster than the natural pull of gravity, but it will give how many watt seconds it takes to release the grip.

We want to match the dissipation of the magnetic field created in the EM to the speed the PM is moving away from the EM. We need to have a sawtooth force happening so the release happens over the length of the retraction; the dissipating magnetic field?s sawtooth shape should nicely match the retraction distances of the PM at the proper RPM.

Remember we don?t want to create an equal and opposite force, all we want to do is create a force enough to release the magnetic grip.

The weight of the PMs is 193 grams. The pull force surface field of the magnets I have is 76514 grams. Gravity acting on the PM to cause it to fall is almost insignificant compared to the pull force. And unless you match this dissipation with the retraction, the natural pull of the PM will interfere. So it should be somewhat of a usable test, but flawed until we match the speed of the retraction with the dissipation of the EM?s temporary magnetic field. The RPMs of the crank needs to be so the retraction of the piston matches the pulse and dissipation of the EM field. I hope to do an experiment to determine the length and amount of the dissipation.

I am doing tests on a similar motor to
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1868.new.html#new
Will try to adapt it to test your theory..??

Ar

Excellent, thank you. I have a meeting on Monday with a theoretical physicist to redo the calculation on how many joules we get from a PM approaching a metal target. I?ll post them here when I get them. His first calculations showed that we get 200 joules per magnet strike or 400 joules per pair of PMs and EM. I think this is off by a decimal place. We will see. I can?t believe that this is true since it only takes about 5 watts to create an equal force in an EM.

Here?s the electromagnet (click on ?Round Electromagnets?):

http://www.adamsmagnetic.com/d_electro.php

Here?s the permanent magnet:

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DY0X0

[rukiddingme]

Peter,

Here's a gif:

<a href="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/MagGen 00.gif"> <img src="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/MagGen 01.gif></a>
Click image to enlarge.

Hope this helps.

[rukiddingme]

The piston movement distance needs to be a little bit more than the active field of the PM. If you hold the magnets you are using from a piece of metal you can feel where the active attraction sort of clicks over and it turns into a strong palpable feeling. A little bit more than that distance is what the piston has to move. You want to have the PM clear that field for a moment before it starts back.
needs to be a little bit more than the active field of the PM

[tropes]

RUKIDD
Why should the guide rods go all the way through? The pistons are already built and I just built 6 guide rods today.
See http://www.eebeh.com/opm.html
Peter