Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others

[bistander]

You have the rotating magnetic field (RMF) in the stator but that does not translate to the coil inside the claw (Lundell) rotor as an RMF due to the orientation of the coil (axial instead of radial). That coil sees it just as an alternating flux.

Try the same test allowing rotation and you should see a lower frequency induced in the rotor coil, and lower peaks.

I think the 'slave' machine rotation is cause by induction of eddy currents in the steel rotor claws, not the coil. Like an induction motor, which would rotate with a solid steel core. Does it rotate with the slip rings open circuit?
bi

[citfta]

Okay,  here is another short video of the signals with the rotor not locked.  The yellow signal is the signal of one of the 3 phases.  The blue signal is again the signal coming from the slip rings connected to the rotor of the output alternator.  I said in the video the signals were the same frequency, but that is not correct.  They are close but if they were actually the same they would stay in step.  Looking at the video closer you can see that as the rotor is freely turning the frequency goes down on the rotor as bistander correctly suggested.


Also in the first part of the video the slip rings of the rotor are not connected to any load except the input to the scope.  If you watch closely in the video when I connect the load the rotor signal seems to get closer to the frequency of the 3 phase signal.  And of course when I lock the rotor the signals do get synced to one another.  Also I have connected a meter to the slip ring output and measured the AC signal locked and unlocked.  As bi also suggested the voltage goes up when locked as we could see in the other video by the bulb getting slightly brighter when the rotor was locked.  The unlocked voltage is 28.8 VAC and the locked voltage is 30.8 VAC.  So the output voltage goes up and the input power goes down when we lock the rotor.  Does the output voltage go up because the frequency of the system goes up or does the frequency go up because somehow the rotor being locked causes less load on the driving motor?  It appears then that if we could get our input frequency higher we might see some interesting results.  I don't think there is much more I can do with this set up, but if anyone has any ideas they want me to try just let me know.


https://rumble.com/v1hb4yn-free-running-rotor.html


Just some more to think about.


Later,
Carroll

[bistander]

Well done citfta,
Since it will rotate on its own with the rotor coil open circuit, it is eddy currents in the steel claws producing torque, nothing from the coil. That would imply that, if the rotor was to spin at synchronous speed, no torque would be produced. And no voltage induced in the rotor coil. We can see the beginning of that trend with frequency and voltage decreasing with increasing rotor speed.

I think this is an excellent test/example to confirm or support the contention that the magnetic field actually moves rather than disappear at one point in space and reappear in a nearby point giving the allusion of movement. If that were the case, there would be changing flux linking the shaft concentric coil and induction. I'd really like to see both alternators driven at same speed (assumption is equal pole count).
Thanks for your efforts.
BTW, still no hint of iron electron spin Holcomb energy. I think you'd need radial orientation pick-up coils, to be cut by the RMF.
bi

[Ufopolitics]

Good morning Citfta, good morning Bistander, good morning all,

I have to say that your idea to build this setup was an excellent move!!
As you may think this is it...I will tell you, it is just the beginning...

I really do not want to crowd your Thread with all my thoughts, so I will be opening a specific Topic under my Moderated Thread.

I have no idea if some of you have seen all these Alternator Conversion into a Brushless (BLDC) Motor...but ever since you uploaded your first video, I was thinking of it as a possibility...since you encounter problems when feeding your exciting field with just the proper Voltage and Amperage...since it will get stiff, and your scooter motor would not be able to spin it...

Here is the First Video...the Guy uses a typical small 500-1000 Watts ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) normally used for R/C Toys and Hobbyists (btw, I ordered one [1000W, arriving next week)

Note that almost NO WORK, no new winding, not full removal of diode bridge is even required to make original alternator to run.

ALTERNATOR CONVERSION TO BLDC MOTOR_VIDEO 1

But then, same Guy goes a bit more sophisticated, by building his own ESC...out of 3 FETS, 4 Diodes and 4 Resistors...plus a Potentiometer...and honestly, what I like better about this last one...is that it uses the common 3 wire joint to one of the potentiometer leg...while the factory build ESC does not...so, I assume it will tend to overheat more.

ALTERNATOR CONVERSION TO BLDC, NO ESC, 3 FETS_VIDEO_2

Point here, is very simple, you will just need ONE Alternator...not two, plus get rid of the Scooter Motor...

Notice that in both videos, He powers the rotor coil (magnetize it) with a small AA 1.5V Battery...if not, it will simply not turn at all.
Which demonstrates that this is NOT the same effect as seen on the typical Induction Motor with 3 Phase AC Sinewave.
And not spinning due to any Eddy currents either...

Process is simple, even a weak magnetization on Rotor, will make it to "stick" to the Rotating Field...and vualá...it runs, and runs very strong!!
I am going to be making this test as soon as next week...I will also order all components to make the 3 FETS Controller.
I will also power rotor coil with a Supercap, and a small meter to detect if there is any charge value while spinning.

But finally, I will fit a Generator Exciter Rotor inside Alternator Stator Field and make it fixed...wound it with 18 or 20 gauge...like 700 to 1000 ft. Just like Pierre Cotnoir setup...but using this simple small ESC...

I now believe this is the "secret" that Pierre was talking about...or the "Pistons missing on the Engine" when just rotating the field...

Realize the BLDC Signal (And I will measure it and see it on my new 4 channel scope) is a square, flat top and bottom wave...and whenever aligned all three of them will create almost a flat line above and below...which means field(s) would be alive at almost all times...so, no soft up-down AC curves here...

It will be a piece of cake to make this field to go and keep at 3600 RPM's...As he drives it above 7500 and more RPM's effortlessly...
However, as Bistander mentioned like two times, you will need a new type of center rotor...where coil(s) and center core, would be facing Stator Coils, radially.

Anyways, I wanted to share my findings here, since you started to play with Alternators first, as it was your original and ingenious idea, what got me into this exciting future tests.


I feel very positive about it...

Regards

Ufopolitics

[Feb2006]

A video about half bridges and full bridges ESCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urQEdGjK7Xg
09:57 Half vs Full Controller