Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!

[onepower]

Tinman

And in the case of the toroid example you posted, where the secondary loop passes through the toroid transformer, and produces a current flow in the loosely coupled secondary winding--that current is produced by the electric field around the toroid, not the magnetic field within the toroid.

Right, try applying 12v AC to the toroid and measuring any external electric field let alone one which could induce the center conductor. In reality it's a pipe dream. The electric field theory your talking about is a math construct relating to equations needing to balance in an imaginary closed system not reality. Anyone who has actually bothered to measure the external electric fields with an electrometer array like I did would know the theory is nonsense.

Here's a clue, how many people do you know who use an electrometer or electrometer arrays?, the answer is basically none. So it's kind of problematic when nobody seems to be checking there facts and simply guessing.

So to recap, in the picture below you believe a weak electric field traveled through the insulation of the wire and toroid, through the 10mm air space and thick 2mm plastic insulation into the very large conductor which produced an electron current forcibly moving the magnet in the large conductor loop?... really?. Having actually measured external electric fields what your suggesting sounds more like unicorns and fairy dust to me.

AC

[lumen]

@AC


I think a simple Hall sensor in the hole and a scope would answer your assumption.
If you think about the field lines as only closed loops it would make sense that they take the shortest path which is the center hole.
Do you get the same effect with the cable on the outside of the torroid?

LM

[tinman]

Tinman
Right, try applying 12v AC to the toroid and measuring any external electric field let alone one which could induce the center conductor. In reality it's a pipe dream. The electric field theory your talking about is a math construct relating to equations needing to balance in an imaginary closed system not reality. Anyone who has actually bothered to measure the external electric fields with an electrometer array like I did would know the theory is nonsense.

Here's a clue, how many people do you know who use an electrometer or electrometer arrays?, the answer is basically none. So it's kind of problematic when nobody seems to be checking there facts and simply guessing.

So to recap, in the picture below you believe a weak electric field traveled through the insulation of the wire and toroid, through the 10mm air space and thick 2mm plastic insulation into the very large conductor which produced an electron current forcibly moving the magnet in the large conductor loop?... really?. Having actually measured external electric fields what your suggesting sounds more like unicorns and fairy dust to me.

AC

I can assure you that it is the electric field around the toroid transformer that is inducing the current flow through your loosely coupled secondary.

The electric field does not cut through any part of the secondary, it follows the secondary around it's circumference. As we all know, a changing electric field is always accompanied by a changing magnetic field, that is at right angles to the electric field. It is this changing magnetic field that accompanies the electric field, that cuts through the loosely coupled secondary winding, creating current flow. It is not the magnetic field within the toroid core that induces current flow in your loosely coupled secondary.

We all also know that the current flow through the windings will lag 90* behind the voltage across the windings.
So if what you are saying were true, then the voltage across the secondary would be produced by the current flow in the secondary, and there for would be 90* out from the applied voltage to the primary windings-which it is not.

The voltage across both the primary and secondary will be in phase, not 90* out from each other.
This changing electric field around both the primary and secondary produces a changing magnetic field that is at right angles to the electric field. It is this changing magnetic field that induces current flow through both the primary and secondary windings.
It is not the magnetic field within the toroid core that induces a current flow through your loosely coupled secondary.
If it were, then the voltage across the secondary would be 90* out of phase with the voltage across the primary-which it is not.
The voltage across both the primary and secondary are in phase, which means that it is the electric field inducing a voltage across the secondary winding, not the magnetic field. And what do you get when there is a potential difference across any resistance, such as a coils windings ?, yep, a current flow.

So once again--> if it were the magnetic field from the primary inducing a current flow in the secondary, then the voltage across the secondary would be 90* out of phase with the voltage across the primary, which it is not.

[onepower]

Tinman
Basically everyone in the scientific/engineering world would disagree but I say let's go there...

Here is a question, so if in your picture we did have a one turn coil with next to no resistance ie. voltage drop across said conductor then how did the supposed E field evolve?. Follow the logic, a superconductor has no electric field because it has no resistance which could increase the charge density across the conductor producing an electric field. An external electric field is only produced because either the (-) or (+) charges bunch up or increase in density which is the cause of the external electric field. If the charges present cancelled, were negated internally or cannot increase in density then there is no external electric field. Ergo, cause and effect.

Think of it this way, as a hydraulic analogy the electric field is an electrical pressure(charge density) and the current (charge flow). If there was no resistance to flow then no pressure could evolve thus the pressure could not increase ergo no external electric field. So the picture you presented seems completely absurd to me because all the details which could describe what actually happens in reality are missing.

We all also know that the current flow through the windings will lag 90* behind the voltage across the windings.
So if what you are saying were true, then the voltage across the secondary would be produced by the current flow in the secondary, and there for would be 90* out from the applied voltage to the primary windings-which it is not.

Indeed, why does any current(flow) lag behind the voltage(pressure)?. We could ask why does the water flow lag behind the water pressure from the source which produced the pressure which led to the flow in the first place?. The basic logic should be self evident but apparently it's not.

AC

[tinman]

 

author=onepower link=topic=19405.msg581701#msg581701 date=1693276975

Tinman

AC
[/quote]

Here is a question, so if in your picture we did have a one turn coil with next to no resistance ie. voltage drop across said conductor then how did the supposed E field evolve?

.

The E field is produced by the primary windings around the toroid transformer, not the single turn secondary.

Follow the logic, a superconductor has no electric field because it has no resistance

A true super conductor also rejects any magnetic field trying to be induced into it.
So in this case, where your toroid is a true super conductor, nothing would happen when a voltage was dropped across the windings.
In order to get a magnetic field into a super conductor, the magnetic field must be induced while the core is in a non super conductive state, and then cooled down to super conductivity. This is why a magnet will float above a super conductor, as super conductors appose any change in their magnetic field--the Meissner effect.

So the picture you presented seems completely absurd to me because all the details which could describe what actually happens in reality are missing.

The diagram is correct.
All you have to do is add the magnetic field, that accompanies every changing electric field, at right angles to the electric field, and you can then see very clearly that magnetic field cutting through the secondary, which induces current flow.

The magnetic field produced in the primary windings is contained within the toroid core, and dose not induce the current flow in the loosely coupled secondary in your example.

We could ask why does the water flow lag behind the water pressure from the source which produced the pressure which led to the flow in the first place?. The basic logic should be self evident but apparently it's not.

If we are talking water in pipes, then there is no lag, as water is non compressible.
So as soon as the water at one end of a pipe see's a change in pressure, the other end of the water in a pipe will see that change at the very same time.

Basically everyone in the scientific/engineering world would disagree

Oh, i don't think so.

Added-- https://www.iqsdirectory.com/articles/electric-transformer/toroidal-transformer.html
Quote: In regards to a toroid transformer, the magnetic flux density is concentrated inside the coil, while none is present in the outside regions.

Brad